Military crimp removal

[SIG383]

I have a bunch of Lake City 30-06 brass, along with 5.56 brass that has the crimp. Trying to find the best way to remove the crimp. I know there is the Dillon Super Swage 600. I have also seen the reamer style like the L.E. Wilson one. My question, which is a better way to go? I plan to get the Wilson case trimmer but have been waiting on that since I've been using my neighbor's case trimmer for the time being and money has been tight... Are there any other options to remove the crimp? Some have said the swage can sometimes mess up the head of the brass but not sure if there is truth behind that or is it marketing for competitors? Thanks!

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[ma96782]

from an old post of mine.

IMHO.....assuming, that a re-loader KNOWS how to use his tools properly......a properly made and sized de-crimper reamer tool will do the job correctly. As will, a properly made and sized swage rod. Getting the primer seated, "tight enough" is the goal. And, FWIW.....for accuracy and/or service life of the case(s).....I don't know of ANY published article that says that one method is superior to the other.

However......I do concede that: IF I were looking to do 1000s of cases while sitting at a bench.....the Dillon Swage is a great tool for production. At the same time, I'll say that a hand reamer tool would also be a great tool if, I were just doing say, a 100 cases at a time.

DYK, that with the Dillon Swage method, because of the rod that supports the case from the inside........the rod might crush the burrs of the punched flash hole (left there from initial production). Blocking, partially blocking, or not, the flash path. You could use a flash hole uniformer deburring tool, prior to (or after) the swaging operation to take care of that. Then again, some folks may not see it as a problem at all. So, YMWV.

But, shouldn't you always uniform/deburr the flash hole with all your brass? Answer: Yes and No. IF you're looking for BR groups and ultimate accuracy, you will. But it's OPTIONAL, IF you're just looking to make safe/reasonably accurate, shooting ammo. Thus, you could save a step IF you reamed the crimp. Or, you could still do it, IF you wanted to.

And, some may say that the swage method only moves metal......it doesn't remove metal. Sorry, I have (and my friend w/ a Dillon has) observed metal slivers that have broken off of primer crimps when using a swage. Probably, due to the quality of the brass, crimp quality, mfn process, or whatever. So, YMWV.

In the end.....getting uniform brass weight for accuracy IS a known practice. So, IMHO.....when looking for accuracy, with once fired military brass, do your case prep steps and either, swage or ream (to remove the military crimped primer pocket). Finish the case prep, by weighing each case and culling out those that do not meet with your spec. Not mentioning "case concentricity/runout" at this time. THEN IF, you're looking for “ultimate accuracy,” you wouldn't be using once fired military brass.

A Dillon swage tool goes for just under a $100 while the common hand held reamer can be gotten for about $11. Decide for yourself.......what's BEST for you.

Because of the way I like to do things.......I use a reamer (large and small size).

Large Primer Pocket Size #7777785

<broken link removed>

Small Primer Pocket Size #7777784

<broken link removed>

BTW, with a reamer, the learning curve is short. Just insert the tool into the primer pocket, twist, remove the tool and it’s done. It’s the sort of a mindless operation, that I can do while watching T.V. And, when my hands get tired, I stop and rest.

With a Dillon, there is an adjustment. Folks have been known to "over and under, do it." And, watch out for your fingers.

It depends on how YOU like to do things.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

Some have said the swage can sometimes mess up the head of the brass but not sure if there is truth behind that or is it marketing for competitors?

There is a certain brand of swage that uses the rim of the cartridge case as support.......while the swage rod is inserted into the primer pocket hole. Can you imagine the amount of stress the rim will be faced with? Not all brass is made equal and not all primer pockets are made to the nth degree of accuracy. Not to mention, the swage rod size. So, yes......it might mess up your brass.

One more reason to like the reamer tool. It'll cut/uniform the primer pocket hole size (if, it were alittle too small or slightly out of round) while it's cutting the crimp. My particular brand of reamer doesn't affect the depth of the primer pocket. There are other tools for that job. Me, I don't bother with that. I'll leave that to the bench rest guys.

Aloha, Mark

 

[SIG383]

With this being said, I think I will go with a reamer setup...

 

[ma96782]

Are there any other options to remove the crimp?

Some people have said to use a "case chamfer/deburring tool."

IMHO.....DON'T USE THIS STYLE OF TOOL..........

<broken link removed>

Someone once asked: Why Not?

A standard chamfer/de-burr tool (like the tool above) might/could be used. But, it also depends on how long the pointy end is. So, your results will vary greatly.

In my younger days I tried using it. But, I encountered problems with getting squared cuts and sometimes over doing it. And, it does nothing for the actual diameter of the pocket (IF, there is a problem there). YMWV.

BTW, my Speer #10 Re-loading manual has a picture of a pocket knife being used to "process" a military crimp (page 71). LOL.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ron]

I have reloaded many thousand rounds of LC 30/06. I swage with a Dillion and then use a primer pocket uni former. It is important to not have a 'High Primer'
so I uniform the primer pocket depths with a RCBS case prep center. Which I also use to debur inside & outside and flash hole. Before I had the RCBS
case prep center I had a uni former tool that fit in a cordless drill it worked just fine and was cheap. I have swaged 223 brass also with the Dillon and
it does not damage the brass at all. It is quick and easy I would highly recommend it. LC is good brass that will reload many times with no problems.

 

[Trailboss]

I use a primer sized drill bit held in a drill chuck without a drill motor. Works excellent. Totally manual but as fast as any method I've seen. One easy spin of the chuck with the fingers and done. Primers go in snug but not hard. Perfect.

 

[gehrheart]

I prefer the dillon swage tool.
I will sometimes follow that up with a ream.. depends on things if I ream or not.

But always use the swage.

 

[Silver Hand]

Some people have said to use a "case chamfer/deburring tool."

IMHO…..DON'T USE THIS STYLE OF TOOL..........

<broken link removed>

Someone once asked: Why Not?

A standard chamfer/de-burr tool (like the tool above) might/could be used. But, it also depends on how long the pointy end is. So, your results will vary greatly.

In my younger days I tried using it. But, I encountered problems with getting squared cuts and sometimes over doing it. And, it does nothing for the actual diameter of the pocket (IF, there is a problem there). YMWV.

BTW, my Speer #10 Re-loading manual has a picture of a pocket knife being used to “process” a military crimp (page 71). LOL.

Aloha, Mark

Mark, I cannot tell you how many military primers I have reamed with this method in the last forty years. What I can say is it just takes the right feel and do not over do it. I have never had a primer blow out running semiautomatic rifle fire nor have I had a problem loading primers with RCBS Rock Chucker or JR. Lee hand held primer tool or my 550 Dillon.
Thing is don't dig to deep. You just want to remove or move a small bit of obstruction.

I am preparing to do a new load of brass and that is why I am reading what you guys think about spending the bucks and dealing with the results using all the new methods available today. A pocket knife works just as well if you are planning on loading just a few rounds for the locker. Not everyone can afford to and many don't want to load, shoot or store so many rounds for the worlds end or what ever people are afraid of these days, Knowing just one well placed round will brings home the bacon.
Silver Hand

 

[deadshot2]

Mark, I cannot tell you how many military primers I have reamed with this method in the last forty years. What I can say is it just takes the right feel and do not over do it.

What you say is true but when you "swage" it's not as necessary to develop the "feel". If one has a "5-gallon pail full" of crimped brass, it's a lot faster to use the Dillon Super Swage. I also prefer the method that doesn't remove any metal from the pocket. The swaging punch reforms the entire pocket and leaves a nice radius on the edge.

Most go with the reamer method because of price. For my money, the investment in a Dillon Super Swage is money well spent.

 

[P7M13]

...and many don't want to load, shoot or store so many rounds for the worlds end or what ever people are afraid of these days, Knowing just one well placed round will brings home the bacon.
Silver Hand

Nope, reloading just for my habit.
While my kids (8-14) fear the zombie apocalypse, the only things I fear are my own stupidity and people texting on their cell phones while I'm on my motorcycle. With regards to the latter, I can't shoot them.

 

[Silver Hand]

Nope, reloading just for my habit.
While my kids (8-14) fear the zombie apocalypse, the only things I fear are my own stupidity and people texting on their cell phones while I'm on my motorcycle. With regards to the latter, I can't shoot them.

I would like to know just how many people die due to cell phones use wile driving.
I would venture a guess it exceeds the amount of people killed with guns each month. The child victims in these cases are on each side of the issue users and receivers.
I was almost killed riding my machine, some dumb blond waved with the cell phone plugged in her ear. Then abruptly changed lanes and drove nearly over me [after the smile and wave just seconds before] occupying my lane with all four wheels, I was over the fog lane on 101 south. Had there been a guard rail there would not have been enough room to survive it.
Silver Hand

 

[Silver Hand]

What you say is true but when you "swage" it's not as necessary to develop the "feel". If one has a "5-gallon pail full" of crimped brass, it's a lot faster to use the Dillon Super Swage. I also prefer the method that doesn't remove any metal from the pocket. The swaging punch reforms the entire pocket and leaves a nice radius on the edge.

Most go with the reamer method because of price. For my money, the investment in a Dillon Super Swage is money well spent.

I would not know what to do with a several thousand rounds of prepared brass in the first place. Isn't a five gallon bucket about 3-K? But I like the idea of the Dillon swagging tool until I read it occasionally forces burrs back into the flash holes creating another process to be completed before you can be assured you have reliable ammunition.

Silver Hand

 

[deadshot2]

But I like the idea of the Dillon swagging tool until I read it occasionally forces burrs back into the flash holes creating another process to be completed before you can be assured you have reliable ammunition.

Silver Hand

Another of those Internet "warnings". Yes, sometimes I do see a small ring of brass that's cut off the crimp when I swage the Primer Pocket. Doesn't matter at all. With all the military crimped brass I get, I deprime, swage, and then clean in Stainless Steel Media. Any of these "dreaded burs" are long gone when I remove the cases from the tumbler. If there were any they go right down the drain with the "gunk" that was cleaned off the case.

For my money, hands down the Dillon Super Swage is the best tool for the job. So good in fact that RCBS is copying it.

For those that only shoot a couple boxes of .223 a year the reamers are a financial compromise. For those that are just plain cheap, naturally a $100 tool will have all kinds of problems

 

[Silver Hand]

Another of those Internet "warnings". Yes, sometimes I do see a small ring of brass that's cut off the crimp when I swage the Primer Pocket. Doesn't matter at all. With all the military crimped brass I get, I deprime, swage, and then clean in Stainless Steel Media. Any of these "dreaded burs" are long gone when I remove the cases from the tumbler. If there were any they go right down the drain with the "gunk" that was cleaned off the case.

For my money, hands down the Dillon Super Swage is the best tool for the job. So good in fact that RCBS is copying it.

For those that only shoot a couple boxes of .223 a year the reamers are a financial compromise. For those that are just plain cheap, naturally a $100 tool will have all kinds of problems

I have been reading the pro and cons of swagging and responded from information gathered from several sources, that have referred to problems involving [closing flash holes tight] or diminishing the flash hole size, using the Dillon Super Swage. This residue or slag is not removed with S.S. media but can be removed with flash hole tools.
I have no idea what internet warnings you are suggesting.
I do not deburr all the flash holes of my cases, Just my pet loads get this special attention. Certainly I do not want to pay that much attention to scrap field brass just to have dependable ammunition.
I think you missed something in the post involving closing the flash hole.

Edit:- This material can be found hanging around the inside of the case clinging to the flash hole at the base.
Silver Hand

 

[deadshot2]

I have been reading the pro and cons of swagging and responded from information gathered from several sources, that have referred to problems involving [closing flash holes tight] or diminishing the flash hole size, using the Dillon Super Swage. This residue or slag is not removed with S.S. media but can be removed with flash hole tools.

What you are referring to is the "chad" that is left behind from the primer pocket/flash hole forming process when the manufacture uses a punch rather than drill/counterbore. In the tens of thousands of pieces of brass I have swaged I have never seen this occur.

It appears that someone has examined a new piece of brass, noticed the "chad", and then hypothesized that the anvil in the swaging tool "could" push it back over the flash hole. The reality if the situation is that only once fired, crimped brass, is swaged. The firing process blows away any large piece of "chad" and what remains is usually a small burr.

Again, tens of thousands of pieces of military crimped brass swaged in my shop and NO closed flash holes.

BTW, doesn't everyone check their flash holes before priming?

 

[Slowpoke]

BTW, doesn't everyone check their flash holes before priming?

I wipe my flash hole after every #2.





Sorry, my weird sense of humor got the best of me.

 

[Silver Hand]

What you are referring to is the "chad" that is left behind from the primer pocket/flash hole forming process when the manufacture uses a punch rather than drill/counterbore. In the tens of thousands of pieces of brass I have swaged I have never seen this occur.

It appears that someone has examined a new piece of brass, noticed the "chad", and then hypothesized that the anvil in the swaging tool "could" push it back over the flash hole. The reality if the situation is that only once fired, crimped brass, is swaged. The firing process blows away any large piece of "chad" and what remains is usually a small burr.

Again, tens of thousands of pieces of military crimped brass swaged in my shop and NO closed flash holes.

BTW, doesn't everyone check their flash holes before priming?

Considering steel pins these days, I review every flash hole and every case interior for pins.

If what you say is true then why is there a burr in the fired cases I have been working with recently. As well some from forty years ago when I first started cleaning flash holes inside the cases, about 1969-74 wile shooting in competition? That small burr can be fairly large at times and does in fact remain in spent brass after firing a round and it does in fact affect the initial flash which in turn changes case pressure which has a direct result in bullet speed. Just watch your chronograph on some of the worst examples I have.
Some old dogs Just won't learn new things, speaking of myself.

I think the Dillon tool is well made but Personally it is not for me. It leaves me with doubt!
If I had a chance to use the tool I might feel differently.
Silver Hand

 

[deadshot2]

Considering steel pins these days, I review every flash hole and every case interior for pins.

If what you say is true then why is there a burr in the fired cases I have been working with recently. As well some from forty years ago when I first started cleaning flash holes inside the cases, about 1969-74 wile shooting in competition? That small burr can be fairly large at times and does in fact remain in spent brass after firing a round and it does in fact affect the initial flash which in turn changes case pressure which has a direct result in bullet speed. Just watch your chronograph on some of the worst examples I have.
Some old dogs Just won't learn new things, speaking of myself.

I think the Dillon tool is well made but Personally it is not for me. It leaves me with doubt!
If I had a chance to use the tool I might feel differently.
Silver Hand

Frankly, what's the issue with running a flash hole de-burring tool/uniformer through all cases that are new to you (new or picked up). Only has to be done once. It's not like it's a life-long task.

If your concern is over pressure variations along with speed variations then you should be performing this basic prep step anyway. I would think that once fired military crimped brass would be worthy of a complete prep if you plan on using it for accurate ammo. For plinking ammo, different story.

Something else to wrap your mind around. If a primer has enough energy to drive a bullet into the lands of a rifle when you forget the powder, what chance do you think that little bit of "chad" would have if it's pushed over the flash hole? For all the thinking that's been put into what's wrong with the tool, take some time and think about that.

 

[Silver Hand]

deadshot2
You obviously have problems reading or have no interest in what other people are trying to say.

Silver Hand