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Microstamping's dirty little secret

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Microstamping’s ‘dirty little secret’ should push gun makers to move

    Reports have been circulating lately that Remington Arms is thinking about leaving its historic Ilion, N.Y. headquarters and moving to another state because of a perennial effort by anti-gun Empire State lawmakers to impose a microstamping requirement.

    Microstamping
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Could be great news for Washington!!
     
  3. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Dave, I tried to reply to your GRE article; but Facebook was down so I couldn't log in. Here is my thought:

    Dave, I sympathize with you [about Colt or Remington moving to Washington], but believe that Washington's business bureacracy would kill any such deal. Plus our anti-gun state legislature would likely throw up any roadblocks they could get away with. (Adam Kline, anyone?)
    I suspect that Idaho or Montana have already proved to be more gun-business-friendly, and would prove more attractive: Either one would welcome Colt or Remington.

    Riddle me this though: Without the economic (re. JOBS) pressure on the state legislatures in NY and Conn, wouldn't it be so much easier for them to push through such things as microstamping? Without the gun manufacturer's presence, there really is no balancing force against the gun-grabbers in those state governments.
    (My opinion: Correct me if I'm wrong.)
     
  4. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    An article I wrote on Micro stamping a few years back:

    Well, they did it. The California hoplophobes, a decades-long majority in the state legislature has finally managed to come up with a gun control idea so stupid even the notoriously anti-gun California Police Chiefs Association (CPCA) can’t support it: Microstamping.

    In case you don’t know what microstamping is, here’s a good description along with California’s iteration of the process:

    Firearms microstamping is the process by which firearms manufacturers would have to micro laser-engrave a gun’s make, model and serial number on two distinct parts of each gun, including the firing pin, so that in theory the information would be imprinted on the cartridge casing when the pistol is fired. Legislation mandating microstamping in California was signed into law in 2007 by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-Calif.) and was slated to take effect this New Year’s Day (2010); however, since the technology remains encumbered by patents it cannot be certified by the California Department of Justice and therefore has not been implemented.

    Other people have written about this incredibly bizarre idea California is trying to mandate, but I thought I’d add my 2¢, with the excuse of the letter the California Police Chiefs Association (Which has rarely met a people gun control idea it didn’t like) sent to the California AG saying essentially, “woops.“

    {From the letter: } Publicly available, peer-reviewed studies conducted by independent research organizations conclude that the technology does not function reliably and that criminals can remove the markings easily in mere seconds. We believe that these findings require examination prior to implementation.”

    In other words, the technical flaws of the idea without any other argument needing to be made makes this a stupid idea. But the letter itself is a perfect example of the ignorance and hypocrisy inherent in the idea of requiring the microstamp in the first place, much less registering individual gun owners. In it’s own words the CPCA references the fact that criminals can easily find a way to evade detection via a firearm registration scheme as one of it’s reasons for opposition to the bill.

    “Criminals can remove the markings easily in mere seconds.”

    The antis can’t manage to come up with even a remotely plausible scenario in which this stuff would solve many crimes, even if they got everything they wanted. But they want it anyway.

    To many who don’t know or care much about guns, gun registration doesn’t sound like a big deal. And if you don’t know anything about microstamping, and much more importantly the assumptions that its supposed effectiveness rests upon, it might not sound like a bad thing. I mean, it’s supposed to help the cops solve crimes right?

    The only problem is that this simply isn’t the case.

    Microstamping guns and registering individual gun owners depends on a large number of things for them to make more than the very slightest difference in catching bad guys. And trust me, I was a crime reporter for years in an area with high gang violence and lots of shootings. I know whereof I speak.

    First, and most easily shown to be false, is the required assumption that guns used by criminals are legally owned and obtained by said criminals. Otherwise having the murder weapon (or shell casing in the case of microstamping is useless.- There’s no connection to the shooter. Microstamping, or even possession of the weapon used will only provide a connection to the gun shop that originally sold the gun or if there is registration of guns as well, a connection in some cases to a previous owner of the firearm.

    That won’t help.

    We have actual numbers on this stuff. They are released by the FBI and most states every single year, and wide-ranging reports, even those submitted by Clinton Administration appointees and staff in the justice department have concluded that the vast majority of crimes are committed by people with previously existing criminal records, which bars any legal purchase of a firearm, people under age to possess a firearm legally, and in a staggeringly large percentage of cases, where the gun is stolen or obtained from an illegal black market, so far removed from the original source that tracing is virtually impossible.

    Essentially, their excuse for logic is that the thing they want to use for crime solving is the one thing they are absolutely certain to not have, even with the most stringent of registration/microstamping provisions.

    First, there are a grand total of about 500-600 unsolved homicides in California each year. About 2/3 of those (following national statistics) are committed with a firearm. Many of these are caught the following year, so the real number of cases where absent more information on the gun could possibly help solve otherwise unsolved cases is already very small. Knowing who used to have the gun legally is of very little help in most cases.

    Microstamping, even if it were trivial to do and worked every time rests upon the idea that there are lots of cases where:

    A
    1. registered gun is used in a crime by a legal gun owner or someone to whom he knowingly gave the gun
    2. Which isn’t a revolver
    3. The perpetrator doesn’t pick up his brass
    4. The perpetrator keeps the gun after committing a crime with it instead of reporting it lost/stolen
    5. The perpetrator is not otherwise tied to the crime
    6. The perpetrator hasn’t altered the gun to defeat registration/microstamping requirements

    Is this true for more than a handful of cases? For this they want to spend millions, make ammunition AND firearms prohibitively expensive for all but the well-to-do and cost the state yet more jobs as anyone who is in the firearms business or cares about their human right of self defense, rapidly flees the Golden State. Like the famous “assault weapon” ban, where the Justice department noted that fewer than .75% of gun crimes were committed by “assault weapons” and that hi-capacity magazines seemed to make no difference in terms of numbers of people injured or in rounds fired, this is another solution to a problem that doesn’t exist outside Sarah Brady’s fantasies.

    I gave up on Democrat politicians showing any common sense on gun control a long time ago, but this is enough to make my jaded opinions sit back in awe. This is beyond stupid. As a matter of fact:
     
  5. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    Interesting that California and New York are at the forefront of this movement. Too much long term drug use in both of those states I suspect. Meth can damage brain cells and we may be seeing the results of that drug use.
     
  6. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    From a separate forum, I was under the impression the micro-stamp was not supposed to be on the primer. It was to be either on the side of the casing or on the end.

    In any case, why aren't we starting to see this in the MSM? And what about police departments with current orders for guns? Are those now on hold?
     
  8. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    No doubt there will be an LE exemption. Plus of course the self-granted exemption by the more criminally inclined. So pretty much another cost measure (with associated and likely slow registration) to push guns away from regular folks.
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    So how on earth does this effect the 350 million preexisting firearms. More then a couple in CA.
     
  10. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    In regards to California;

    What they are attempting to do is slow ( stop ) the flow of guns from entering the state and appearing on the safe handgun roster. As I understand it; guns currently on the roster can continue to be sold without the micro stamping technology. As models are dropped and companies stop paying the extortion fee to have their models remain on the list fewer and fewer guns will be available to Californians, well you can see the intended goal here...

    It's never about reducing crime...

    Here is Kamalas ( CA State AG ) memo if anybody is interested :

    http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/infobuls/2013-BOF-03.pdf

    I know I am preaching to the choir and have stated this many times but we must never allow any new gun laws to gain traction in Oregon or Washington. I don't think Oregon or Washington will ever be like California in regards to gun control in my lifetime but.... I remember a California I grew up in that wasn't the way it is now either.
     
  11. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Not mine.. anymore
     
  12. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Duane hit the idea on the head, the whole microstamping thing is just another technological hurdle manufacturers have to pass over in order to market guns in california, and presumably new york also. My biggest suggestion to the companies: stop making guns available to californians. It seems that the manufacturers are disproportionally shouldering the burden for bad policy that results from a voting public that doesn't care. If they keep voting for idiots who want to take their guns away it won't be long before they get their wish.

    Personally, as a sometimes californian and sometimes washingtonian, I'm pretty well convinced that in california laws simply don't apply to anyone. They sure as hell don't apply to illegal alien drunk drivers (who get time served for multiple negligent homicides), so why should they apply to me? If you havn't already, I suggest getting your matricula consular card if you speak any spanish, it's a get out of jail free card.
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The wording in this document absolutely kills me: a handgun is considered "unsafe" if it doesn't have the microstamping technology. Really??? So if it has microstamping tecnology I can point it at someone with my booger picker on the trigger and all is OK? How incredibly stupid are these people??? I can't even wrap my mind around the idiocy on this.
     
    accessbob and (deleted member) like this.
  14. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    See now if I were criminal, I'd get a 9mm revolver like a ruger speed six in 9mm config, grab a big handful of brass at a range bucket, then after I shoot someone, throw that bass around in the street.

    send police on 5 different wild goose chases when the microstamp comes back to a legitately registered gun owner. hell would've even need a semi auto chambered revolver, the microstamp will come back days before the ballistics. they can harass 5 different 9mm owners soaking up hundreds in overtime budgets before ballistics tells them that their victim met his demise to a .32 H&R
     
    accessbob and (deleted member) like this.
  15. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Learn to shoot and you could just use a patched round ball in a smooth bore muzzle loader pistol. Sure worked for killin people prior to 1820. Dead soft lead slug that gets all squished when it hits something. Course the good ones are like 62 cal. Let them try to match that to a pistol.

    But I can see where Microstamping would be a good idea look how well having hood ornaments on the front of cars works for IDing drunk drivers who hit pedestrians.
     
  16. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    That's why it wouldn't work. Those trying to "ID" someone for something are almost always the ones that need to have a hood ornament stuffed up their ***. Taking Darwin out of the equation only benefits stupid people & stupid people prefer living in glass houses where they sure do like to throw rocks ;)
     
  17. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    I'd think they like to play with live hand grenades a whole lot more, judging by some of the crap we've seen in the last decade or two... They've just started pulling pins and fiddling with the spoon at this point.
     
  18. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    To simplify.. pretend you are an illegal invader and belly up to the bar for free goodies and perks
     
  19. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Yep it looks safe to me.
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    As Duane said it's about people control and not sincere logic. a turd by any other name would be as foul