Mexico City newspaper points to source of drug cartels' guns--the government

[Andy]

<broken link removed>

Finally, some real facts!

Read More

 

[Just Jim]

Where there is money there is government corruption, heck just look at those who are corrupt in our government.

jj

 

[CEF1959]

Facts? All I'm seeing are right wing blogs citing other right wing blogs. If your point is that some guns (or even many of them) in the Mexican drug wars come from Mexican soldiers, I don't think anyone would disagree. But if your point is that some Mexican newspaper says that it's THE source, or a PRIMARY source, or that American guns are a small part, I'm not seeing that in your right wing blog link. [This is the same blog, btw, that we discussed a few days ago when it suggested a Waco-style massacre of two idiot cop killing thugs].

But I admit, I got bored looking at all the unsubstantiated right wing blogs all linking to one another as sources, and I may have missed the critical Mexican newspaper article you claim.

I'm not doubting the underlying notion (US guns smuggled into Mexico are not the biggest source for the cartels); I'm just saying this right wing blog stuff isn't all that helpful in demonstrating that.

 

[Just Jim]

The United States has the best system of governement ever formed but corrupt people running it. To allow Mexico to blame us for the gun violence and corruption in their country just shows how corrupt our own administration is. Obama should quit apologizing to the world and start apologizing to Americans

jj

 

[Trlsmn]

The United States has the best system of government money can buy

Fixed!

 

[2zuks]

Facts? All I'm seeing are right wing blogs citing other right wing blogs. If your point is that some guns (or even many of them) in the Mexican drug wars come from Mexican soldiers, I don't think anyone would disagree. But if your point is that some Mexican newspaper says that it's THE source, or a PRIMARY source, or that American guns are a small part, I'm not seeing that in your right wing blog link. [This is the same blog, btw, that we discussed a few days ago when it suggested a Waco-style massacre of two idiot cop killing thugs].

But I admit, I got bored looking at all the unsubstantiated right wing blogs all linking to one another as sources, and I may have missed the critical Mexican newspaper article you claim.

I'm not doubting the underlying notion (US guns smuggled into Mexico are not the biggest source for the cartels); I'm just saying this right wing blog stuff isn't all that helpful in demonstrating that.

O.k. I can't take it anymore. Liberals always strike down any information that comes from any "right wing" source. Liberals always seem to take the liberal media sources at their word. How does this work. Liberal news is AT LEAST as opinionated and misleading as conservative media is, probably more so.

I have just had it with all of the FOX News bashing and ridicule when the same things happen, to at least the same extent in liberal media. Please enlighten me as to why this is the case.

 

[bugeye]

O.k. I can't take it anymore. Liberals always strike down any information that comes from any "right wing" source. Liberals always seem to take the liberal media sources at their word. How does this work. Liberal news is AT LEAST as opinionated and misleading as conservative media is, probably more so.

I have just had it with all of the FOX News bashing and ridicule when the same things happen, to at least the same extent in liberal media. Please enlighten me as to why this is the case.

I think I did what CEF did, googled to to find out if these numbers were true, the figures used in the cite indicate that about 8% (15,000) of the 190K Mexican Army goes AWOL every year, and that seems like an outlandish figure. I found a few links that show the Mexican Government saying these figures are BS but they don't give a real number.

In short, I couldn't find any source for these 'facts', but I did find the net filled with righties using these figures but no authoritative reference to where they came from or how they were gathered.

So, that's what seems to happen when I check out the 'facts' in many right wing releases, it seems playing fast and loose with the truth is just par for the course.

 

[2zuks]

I think I did what CEF did, googled to to find out if these numbers were true, the figures used in the cite indicate that about 8% (15,000) of the 190K Mexican Army goes AWOL every year, and that seems like an outlandish figure. I found a few links that show the Mexican Government saying these figures are BS but they don't give a real number.

In short, I couldn't find any source for these 'facts', but I did find the net filled with righties using these figures but no authoritative reference to where they came from or how they were gathered.

So, that's what seems to happen when I check out the 'facts' in many right wing releases, it seems playing fast and loose with the truth is just par for the course.

Left win releases of course are above suspicion. I am not saying that some right wing sources don't get a bit crazy at times, but I have seen just as much B.S. from left wing sources. Not sure how right wing media becomes the only biased source who fabricates and get's creative with their stories.

 

[bugeye]

Left win releases of course are above suspicion. I am not saying that some right wing sources don't get a bit crazy at times, but I have seen just as much B.S. from left wing sources. Not sure how right wing media becomes the only biased source who fabricates and get's creative with their stories.

Yeah, BS is basic to all polemics. The original estimates of how many US sourced guns are in Mexico is a good example of leftie BS, with the source being the Brady group abusing some stats. I got defeated a few days ago in here when a leftie factoid I left was called to task about Judge Roberts ignorance of technology. We need to be watchful and careful of what 'facts' we let have sway with us, regardless of the inclination of them. There are lot of parties playing for our souls who have nothing but contempt for the truth.

 

[2zuks]

Yeah, BS is basic to all polemics. The original estimates of how many US sourced guns are in Mexico is a good example of leftie BS, with the source being the Brady group abusing some stats. I got defeated a few days ago in here when a leftie factoid I left was called to task about Judge Roberts ignorance of technology. We need to be watchful and careful of what 'facts' we let have sway with us, regardless of the inclination of them. There are lot of parties playing for our souls who have nothing but contempt for the truth.

That's fair.

 

[chemist]

"Don't believe everything you think."

 

[CEF1959]

So, that's what seems to happen when I check out the 'facts' in many right wing releases, it seems playing fast and loose with the truth is just par for the course.

In fairness, I don't think left-wing blogs are any different. Regardless of what you may think about "mainstream media" there are differences between real news organizations (on both left and right) that have real journalistic standards and editors and blogs, which can be posted by anyone with an internet connection, whether he knows what he's talking about or not. We have left and right leaning papers in the US that, like-em or not, at least have journalistic standards.It's never going to be perfect, and you'll never rid journalism of bias.

But blogs are different. There's no filter. Any nut can post anything, and the nuttier it is, the more likely it is to gain attention. So if the National Review, or American Spectator, or WSJ publishes a hard-right leaning piece, I take it seriously. If some goofy right-wing blogger publishes something, I wanna see the research. Same with left-wing publishers and bloggers. In both cases, it's important to engage in critical thinking and to be willing to call BS if the "facts" are unsupported, as they were here in the OP.

Blogs can be useful in leading you to information, but you can't assume what they say is factual on its face without some critical thinking.

 

[pdxjohann]

Project censored DOT something is a good reminder of the bull we are dished up. Worse are those stories in the Memory Hole. (USS Liberty, Bill Casey's lobotomy, the Federal Reserve is Government Agency, just for starters.)

 

[Chee-to]

Facts? All I'm seeing are right wing blogs citing other right wing blogs. If your point is that some guns (or even many of them) in the Mexican drug wars come from Mexican soldiers, I don't think anyone would disagree. But if your point is that some Mexican newspaper says that it's THE source, or a PRIMARY source, or that American guns are a small part, I'm not seeing that in your right wing blog link. [This is the same blog, btw, that we discussed a few days ago when it suggested a Waco-style massacre of two idiot cop killing thugs].

But I admit, I got bored looking at all the unsubstantiated right wing blogs all linking to one another as sources, and I may have missed the critical Mexican newspaper article you claim.

I'm not doubting the underlying notion (US guns smuggled into Mexico are not the biggest source for the cartels); I'm just saying this right wing blog stuff isn't all that helpful in demonstrating that.

Sooooo,who is your righteous source ? lets see can't trust right wing blogs and can't trust left wing blogs and you certainly can't trust this guy!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 16, 2009

<broken link removed>

JOINT PRESS CONFERENCE WITH PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA

AND PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDER&#211;N OF MEXICO

Los Pinos

Mexico City, Mexico

4:29 P.M. CDT

"I have said this before; I will repeat it: I have the greatest admiration and courage for President Calder&#243;n and his entire cabinet, his rank-and-file police officers and soldiers as they take on these cartels. I commend Mexico for the successes that have already been achieved. But I will not pretend that this is Mexico's responsibility alone. A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping to keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States.More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border."

 

[greydog111]

facts? All i'm seeing are right wing blogs citing other right wing blogs. If your point is that some guns (or even many of them) in the mexican drug wars come from mexican soldiers, i don't think anyone would disagree. But if your point is that some mexican newspaper says that it's the source, or a primary source, or that american guns are a small part, i'm not seeing that in your right wing blog link. [this is the same blog, btw, that we discussed a few days ago when it suggested a waco-style massacre of two idiot cop killing thugs].

But i admit, i got bored looking at all the unsubstantiated right wing blogs all linking to one another as sources, and i may have missed the critical mexican newspaper article you claim.

I'm not doubting the underlying notion (us guns smuggled into mexico are not the biggest source for the cartels); i'm just saying this right wing blog stuff isn't all that helpful in demonstrating that.

troll!

 

[Leif Runenritzer]

I think the Liberal-against-Conservative talk needs to stop in this thread. The pith of CEF1959's original post was to say that certain data were unverifiable, not to say that Left-leaning media are more reliable than Right-leaning media; he said absolutely nothing of the sort, from what i saw.

CEF1959, i have to say, your bandying of the word "right-wing" got my hackles up, even though i agree with your point. Right-wing has meant various things throughout its history, some of them bad or contradictory; the term only serves to confuse an issue and color something with the misdeeds of past "right-wingers".