Meticulous reloading data

[Mikej]

I didn't realize I'd be stepping on people toes! All I thought was if you had to pull factory ammo it might be nice to know what powder it was.

Why would you want to make someone elses ammo? Why not make your own? Oh, I get it you want the gratification with out the effort. If you like my ammo then buy it, if you think you can do better/faster/cheaper then by all means do so.

And no worries, I'm fine with the ammo I roll. Jesus Christ man. Didn't realize I was being so offensive.
Calm down.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

It seems tedious at first when one is starting out; I have found over the years that it becomes much less tedious when one finds something that works really well. We tend to load more of the recipes that make our firearm shoot better than expected.

I do this. There will be detailed accuracy and rifle lead data in my reloading book and a bunch of info on the box label for newer loads. The proven rifle loads only have cartridge, bullet weight and powder on the outside and a card on the inside with # of loadings. For pistol rounds I have cartridge and "match" only. "match" means it is a standard load to meet power factor for matches and passed case gage and visual inspection.

 

[Goodknight]

This is where that reputable source/person thing applies. I know a few people that are trustworthy enough that I would actually shoot their reloads; I know they are careful.

I find it really interesting that we pick up a factory box of ammo with no recipe or data and just shoot it out of our beloved firearm. We just trust that the cartridge companies did their due diligence. They send us something basically unlabeled and we just stick it in the chamber and yank the trigger. Yet if we find a box of our own loads undocumented we tend to pull them down. It's a curious phenomena that requires someone smarter than me to analyze, but curious nonetheless.

I truly appreciate your insight, thoughts and comments!

For me being a year and a half newb single stage reloader, documentation starts with the brass. I know obviously! If you were to grab any of my bags or bins of brass you would find a label telling where those cartridges are on their way to being reloaded.
In actual loading I'm grabbing a index card and writing out date load data and expected performance as well as primer and brass stamp and origin. Times loaded etc.
As I type this it does occur to me that I'm somewhat "preaching to the choir "!
For my two cents if I'm going to buy or trade or be given a reloaded lot I would vary much like to know what components I'm dealing (possibly reusing) with. It's likely I'm not experienced enough yet to know the name and manufacture of every projectile. But so much of reloading is matching the right parts to a very specific recipe.

Thanks patiently schooling me!!

 

[deadeye]

I didn't realize I'd be stepping on people toes! All I thought was if you had to pull factory ammo it might be nice to know what powder it was.


And no worries, I'm fine with the ammo I roll. Jesus Christ man. Didn't realize I was being so offensive.
Calm down.

I dont think he's had his coffee yet either...........

 

[Mikej]

I dont think he's had his coffee yet either...........

I'll just have to accept that some people think very highly of themselves. And we that load on regular equipment couldn't dream of coming up with a high quality product.
Lesson learned.

 

[P7M13]

This is where that reputable source/person thing applies. I know a few people that are trustworthy enough that I would actually shoot their reloads; I know they are careful.

Yes, I have shot the ammo of very trustworthy people, and would do so again. That's one thing, versus shooting reloads that have been meticulously documented but you don't know the reloader personally. I myself have fuk'd up in crimps, powder charges, and also mixing powders putting them back into the bottle.

I find it really interesting that we pick up a factory box of ammo with no recipe or data and just shoot it out of our beloved firearm. We just trust that the cartridge companies did their due diligence. They send us something basically unlabeled and we just stick it in the chamber and yank the trigger. Yet if we find a box of our own loads undocumented we tend to pull them down. It's a curious phenomena that requires someone smarter than me to analyze, but curious nonetheless.

Machines that have been continuously monitored and improved over time, vs one individual. In the machines I design and programs I write, I do my best to eliminate human error potential, but there is no way to account for the vast idiocy that exists. We all see it.
Human error kills, just ask medical malpractice insurance companies....

Only one I come close to is the Hornady Levrolution but dont have a taylor made to takedown and weigh the charge. If, and a big if the bottled powder is actually the same recipe.

It seems to me that Hornady is phasing out Leverevolution. I like that powder, but it's hard to find data on it for cartridges. It works really well, too!

I didn't realize I'd be stepping on people toes!

You're not, really -- I think you read their replies one way while I might read them another. From my perspective, when a manufacturer lists the component amounts on a box of ammunition, they are explicitly publishing data that then brings liability in case some poor sap reloads using said data and blows their nose off. Too many Darwin award aspirants -- I wouldn't do it if I were an ammo company.

 

[Goodknight]

Why would you want to make someone elses ammo? Why not make your own? Oh, I get it you want the gratification with out the effort. If you like my ammo then buy it, if you think you can do better/faster/cheaper then by all means do so.

For me it has nothing to do with "making someone else's ammo". It has everything to do with using as many information sources to make any given caliber often times based on slim Pickens at our stores or on our own shelves. I'm new to all this and I don't have 8 lb jugs of my "go to" powder in all my calibers sitting around. I have what I have been able to get. Fortunately components are showing up again slowly.
In one of my recent post I asked about which manual would be best. The over whelming answer was multiple, at least four different sources. As is said
"Information is power"!

 

[Mikej]

From my perspective, when a manufacturer lists the component amounts on a box of ammunition, they are explicitly publishing data that then brings liability in case some poor sap reloads using said data and blows their nose off. Too many Darwin award aspirants -- I wouldn't do it if I were an ammo company.

^^ Oh, absolutely.

And I read it right. I'll leave it at that.

 

[oremike]

Ok, so from my perspective, I've been rolling my own for over 40 years, trying to make the best ammo for me that I could all that time. When I retired I decided to invest in myself doing something I thought I was pretty good at. Hence the ammo business has come to be. A lot of time and effort has gone into making it all work. I'm simply not going to give that experience away. I will drop this crumb though, I have something like 10 reloading manuals, every ammo recipe I use is in there somewhere.

 

[Goodknight]

Ok, so from my perspective, I've been rolling my own for over 40 years, trying to make the best ammo for me that I could all that time. When I retired I decided to invest in myself doing something I thought I was pretty good at. Hence the ammo business has come to be. A lot of time and effort has gone into making it all work. I'm simply not going to give that experience away. I will drop this crumb though, I have something like 10 reloading manuals, every ammo recipe I use is in there somewhere.

Good on you for forming a business! No easy feat in this America! I'm proud of you! And thank you for the crumbs you do give out!

 

[VanceInWA]

For the OP, I don't really know if meticulous record keeping is common practice, partly because it is a subjective standard. In other words, I expect each person develops their own system that is "meticulous enough" for their reloading needs. As an example, shown below is a screen shot of a reloading database I developed in Microsoft Access for my own needs. I'm pretty sure it falls short for a lot of reloaders, but works well enough for me.

 

[Goodknight]

For the OP, I don't really know if meticulous record keeping is common practice, partly because it is a subjective standard. In other words, I expect each person develops their own system that is "meticulous enough" for their reloading needs. As an example, shown below is a screen shot of a reloading database I developed in Microsoft Access for my own needs. I'm pretty sure it falls short for a lot of reloaders, but works well enough for me.
View attachment 1107411

Wow! That is impressive!!!

 

[orygun]

Only one I come close to is the Hornady Levrolution but dont have a taylor made to takedown and weigh the charge. If, and a big if the bottled powder is actually the same recipe.

You've just given me a great idea! I have only shot factory Hornady LeveRevolution ammo through my Remington 600 and it's fantastic. I bought 2 lbs of LeveRevolution powder for reloading 35 Remington in that rifle. I think I will knock apart one round and see what the powder weight is. (I can also compare to see if the powder looks the same) I won't use that for a starting point, but it will be neat to able to make the comparison.

Why would you want to make someone elses ammo? Why not make your own? Oh, I get it you want the gratification with out the effort. If you like my ammo then buy it, if you think you can do better/faster/cheaper then by all means do so.

Why? If someone I trust had a load that worked fantastically in one of my guns, and they were willing to share that info, it could take all of the "work" out of making that gun shoot well.
I bought a box of your 44 Mag ammo, @oremike , and it was a quality product.

 

[jjfitch]

For the OP, I don't really know if meticulous record keeping is common practice, partly because it is a subjective standard. In other words, I expect each person develops their own system that is "meticulous enough" for their reloading needs. As an example, shown below is a screen shot of a reloading database I developed in Microsoft Access for my own needs. I'm pretty sure it falls short for a lot of reloaders, but works well enough for me.
View attachment 1107411

My record keeping isn't that meticulous, but it is "good enough" for me.

What is missing from the conversation is the boxes of reloads that we sometimes get in trades that might sit around for years. I for one will not shoot someone else's reloads but I just might keep them "just in case". Some day later in life I might have to pull bullets and reuse primed cases after dumping out the powder. Some of the boxes might have load data some may not.

Life happens!

 

[oremike]

Good on you for forming a business! No easy feat in this America! I'm proud of you! And thank you for the crumbs you do give out!

Thank you for that. I'm really not trying to be a richard, and I am willing to help you and others develop your own loads. IMHO the load development is the dark art or achemy of the process.

 

[DizzyJ]

Should everyone keep meticulous records on their loads? You bet!

Does everyone, heck no.

There are a few people I'd trust their reloads. Most others, probably not. As mentioned I'd need to know them and their attention to detail and quality control.

 

[DLS]

WARNING

To those that are thinking of pulling apart factory loads to come up with their own data.

The reloading community bus and loads "canister grade" powder. Yhis means that the manufacturer has blended different lots of powder to get the same pressure / burn rate as the standard. So each and every can of powder behaves essentially the same.

Large scale ammo makers don't do this. They get a lot of powder and test it in a lab to determine the charge weight they will use. Since different lots have different burn characteristics they will adjust the charge accordingly, to achieve the pressure and velocity they desire for the load.

We don't have labs, nor do we buy powder in lot sizes approaching a train car in size!

So, using the same powder number, the charge weight will vary in commercial ammo.

Knowing the.powder they used is of little.value to.us, unless our can of powder matches precisely the burn characteristics of the OEM round. We have no way of knowing this.

The above was thumbed on my phone, sorry for any typos.

 

[VanceInWA]

WARNING

To those that are thinking of pulling apart factory loads to come up with their own data.

The reloading community bus and loads "canister grade" powder. Yhis means that the manufacturer has blended different lots of powder to get the same pressure / burn rate as the standard. So each and every can of powder behaves essentially the same.

Large scale ammo makers don't do this. They get a lot of powder and test it in a lab to determine the charge weight they will use. Since different lots have different burn characteristics they will adjust the charge accordingly, to achieve the pressure and velocity they desire for the load.

We don't have labs, nor do we buy powder in lot sizes approaching a train car in size!

So, using the same powder number, the charge weight will vary in commercial ammo.

Knowing the.powder they used is of little.value to.us, unless our can of powder matches precisely the burn characteristics of the OEM round. We have no way of knowing this.

The above was thumbed on my phone, sorry for any typos.

Excellent point DLS.

 

[ageingstudent]

WARNING

To those that are thinking of pulling apart factory loads to come up with their own data.

The reloading community bus and loads "canister grade" powder. Yhis means that the manufacturer has blended different lots of powder to get the same pressure / burn rate as the standard. So each and every can of powder behaves essentially the same.

Large scale ammo makers don't do this. They get a lot of powder and test it in a lab to determine the charge weight they will use. Since different lots have different burn characteristics they will adjust the charge accordingly, to achieve the pressure and velocity they desire for the load.

We don't have labs, nor do we buy powder in lot sizes approaching a train car in size!

So, using the same powder number, the charge weight will vary in commercial ammo.

Knowing the.powder they used is of little.value to.us, unless our can of powder matches precisely the burn characteristics of the OEM round. We have no way of knowing this.

The above was thumbed on my phone, sorry for any typos.

That is true, canister powder has to be more consistent to match the published data that we all use.

Gosh when I think about those big ammo companies with those long lines of bullets flying by it makes me think they probably spill more powder than I use in a year

 

[orygun]

In many instances @DLS is correct, but not all.

Hodgdon – Hodgdon Powder Company

hodgdon.com

The reason for knocking apart a factory round is twofold, powder charge weight measurement and visual comparison. And like I mentioned, the weight of the factory load wouldn't be a starting point. If Leverevolution wasn't touted as THE factory powder, I'd not waste the time and energy. But when Hornady says they use this powder, I'm inclined to believe them.

This is a rare instance. But it is just like the Lyman manual telling what the factory load of WW296 is in a Magnum revolver cartridge.