Methods For Permanently Altering 11+rnd Cap Mags To 10rnd Mags.

[arakboss]

What are some of the best methods for permanently altering mags with a capacity of 11rnds or more down to a capacity of 10rnds. I am considering permanently altered to mean that the mags can not be restored back to 10rnds. Here are the restrictions I would want the altered mags to be compliant with.


(d) "Large-capacity magazine" means a fixed or detachable magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, helical feeding device, or
similar device, including any such device joined or coupled with another in any manner, or a kit with such parts, that has an
overall capacity of, or that can be readily restored, changed, or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition
and allows a shooter to keep firing without having to pause to reload, but does not include any of the following:
(A) An ammunition feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable, now or in the future, of
accepting more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

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[Alexx1401]

The one big rub I would worry about here is who defines "permanently altered"? I could easily see this becoming something different jurisdictions would define different ways when you get anti gun zealots in charge. Like if you put a couple rivets in the body at a place that no longer allows the 11th round is some one going to say you could drill it out? Even if it would be EXTREMELY difficult to "undue" some alteration would one of these jerks say it was not compliant? Since there will be no shortage of black robes who either have no clue which end the bullet comes out, and or just are anti gun zealots themselves? Seems like a small plastic block could be cemented into the bottom of the body that would be VERY difficult to remove but, even this "could be" beat with enough work. So will some black robe say its not permanent? Only thing I can think of that would be almost sure would be to actually cut the bottom off the body and then put a new floor plate on like many OEM 10 round mags do. This could be a huge hassle and expense.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Permanent legs added to the bottom of the follower or a rod going up from the base plate I would think.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I have two .458 SOCOMs. Mags that support .458 SOCOM go up to 10 rounds. Whether or not they hold a higher number of .300BLK or 5.56mm is none of my business or my concern.

 

[arrowshooter]

+1 on something added to the bottom of the follower then epoxy the floor plate. Adding to the floor plate would be easier, but then you have to get it back together.

 

[arakboss]

The one big rub I would worry about here is who defines "permanently altered"? I could easily see this becoming something different jurisdictions would define different ways when you get anti gun zealots in charge. Like if you put a couple rivets in the body at a place that no longer allows the 11th round is some one going to say you could drill it out? Even if it would be EXTREMELY difficult to "undue" some alteration would one of these jerks say it was not compliant? Since there will be no shortage of black robes who either have no clue which end the bullet comes out, and or just are anti gun zealots themselves? Seems like a small plastic block could be cemented into the bottom of the body that would be VERY difficult to remove but, even this "could be" beat with enough work. So will some black robe say its not permanent? Only thing I can think of that would be almost sure would be to actually cut the bottom off the body and then put a new floor plate on like many OEM 10 round mags do. This could be a huge hassle and expense.

I share the concerns about different jurisdictions having different views on what permanently altering means. I am pretty sure rivets and or limiter plugs (not glued) won't be considered permanent. I would think that if the attempts to reverse the alteration, damaged the magazine parts, that might be considered permanent by most robes/juries.

An example with a 30rnd PMAG might go like this. Install limiter plug, add some gorilla glue to inside of floor plate including both the surfaces that make contact with the limiter plug and the mag body before sliding on. Let dry. For added insurance you could drill a hole in the side of the mag body just above the limiter plug and fill it with glue to near the top of the limiter plug. Not sure how this might impact the function of magazine spring?

 

[arakboss]

I share the concerns about different jurisdictions having different views on what permanently altering means. I am pretty sure rivets and or limiter plugs (not glued) won't be considered permanent. I would think that if the attempts to reverse the alteration, damaged the magazine parts, that might be considered permanent by most robes/juries.

An example with a 30rnd PMAG might go like this. Install limiter plug, add some gorilla glue to inside of floor plate including both the surfaces that make contact with the limiter plug and the mag body before sliding on. Let dry. For added insurance you could drill a hole in the side of the mag body just above the limiter plug and fill it with glue to near the top of the limiter plug. Not sure how this might impact the function of magazine spring?

A similiar method as for the pmag could work with steel mags by using JB Weld or you could install a metal limiter and weld the floor plate on to the mag body.

 

[3MTA3]

The only permanent solutions are better politicians and an educated voter base.

As soon as they get ten the next step will be five. And when they get five...

 

[Gunner3456]

Move to another state.

 

[P7M13]

I just received "Kali" legal 10 round AR10 mags, which are actually 20 round mags riveted with a follower block so only 10 rounds can be loaded. I was surprised -- I wanted *real* 10 round mags. Removing the rivet/block to allow 20 rounds is pretty obvious, but demonstrates you have illegally altered a magazine.

 

[arakboss]

I just received "Kali" legal 10 round AR10 mags, which are actually 20 round mags riveted with a follower block so only 10 rounds can be loaded. I was surprised -- I wanted *real* 10 round mags. Removing the rivet/block to allow 20 rounds is pretty obvious, but demonstrates you have illegally altered a magazine.

I have looked at a bunch of different commercial 10rnd mags (with 30rnd body) and none of them look permanently altered to me. Most have a limiter riveted in and some have the limiter plus dimples in the mag body. Both the rivets and the dimples could easily be drilled out.

The only way you are going to have a serviceable 10rnd AR mag that meets IP 17 requirements is to get the shorty 10rnd mags but they won't work well in standard mag pockets in gear and could be more difficult to pull out if you have a sticky mag situation.

 

[arakboss]

This outfit offers epoxy option in States that require it:

Our 10/30 10 Round and 15/30 15 Round blocked AR 15 magazines are made from brand new C Products mags. We block them with an ABS block designed and made here in our shop. This block is an internal ABS block that is riveted in place through the factory hole on the mag baseplate. For states that require epoxy they will be blocked the same way just epoxied shut.

C Products Duramag AR 15 .223/5.56 Bronze Aluminum 10/30 10Rd or 15/30 15Rd Blocked Mag CA,CO,CT,IL,MA,MD,NY,NJ,RI,WA,VT Legal

C Products Duramag AR 15 .223/5.56 Bronze Aluminum 10/30 10Rd or 15/30 15Rd Blocked Mag CA,CO,CT,IL,MA,MD,NY,NJ,RI,WA,VT Legal

www.calcompliantmags.com

 

[P7M13]

Then I must be mistaken, as I thought a rivet is a "permanent" alteration that cannot be removed without showing that it was removed. Kind of like pinning a flash hider on a barrel to make it legal. You can unpin it and remove, but it's no longer legal at that point.

This outfit offers epoxy option in States that require it:

Our 10/30 10 Round and 15/30 15 Round blocked AR 15 magazines are made from brand new C Products mags. We block them with an ABS block designed and made here in our shop. This block is an internal ABS block that is riveted in place through the factory hole on the mag baseplate. For states that require epoxy they will be blocked the same way just epoxied shut.

C Products Duramag AR 15 .223/5.56 Bronze Aluminum 10/30 10Rd or 15/30 15Rd Blocked Mag CA,CO,CT,IL,MA,MD,NY,NJ,RI,WA,VT Legal

C Products Duramag AR 15 .223/5.56 Bronze Aluminum 10/30 10Rd or 15/30 15Rd Blocked Mag CA,CO,CT,IL,MA,MD,NY,NJ,RI,WA,VT Legal

www.calcompliantmags.com

Yeah, you cannot disassemble mine to do anything without first breaking the alteration.

 

[arakboss]

Then I must be mistaken, as I thought a rivet is a "permanent" alteration that cannot be removed without showing that it was removed. Kind of like pinning a flash hider on a barrel to make it legal. You can unpin it and remove, but it's no longer legal at that point.

A rivet may be acceptable in some states but it won't meet this criteria in IP 17:

(A) An ammunition feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it is not capable, now or in the future, of
accepting more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

 

[ma96782]

Consider......

These were modified at one point. The guy from CA (that is, formerly from CA) gave them to me when I bought ammo from him.

So.....was it "permanently modified"? Or maybe just "permanent enough"? Yeah....in order to pass the Range NAZIs?

Hummmm.....maybe he and his friends should have voted correctly in the first place?

Aloha, Mark

PS....Hawaii has an Assault Pistol Magazine ban. It prohibits....any magazine with an over 10 round capacity, that can be used in an Assault Pistol. So.....if you own/owned an M16 magazine with a higher than 10 round capacity....you're in VIOLATION of the Law.

Yeah.....the reality is, that everyone I knew had a set of "range magazines".

BTW......If their wife or whatever, ever wanted to? They could drop a dime on them. Choose wisely.

 

[Lilhigbee]

A liberal application of tar and feathers will cure your 10-round mag limit!!
As far as modifications go, there isn't any mod that can't be undone by someone with knowledge, motivation, and a few tools.

 

[arakboss]

Consider......
View attachment 1092387
These were modified at one point. The guy from CA (that is, formerly from CA) gave them to me when I bought ammo from him.

So.....was it "permanently modified"? Or maybe just "permanent enough"? Yeah....in order to pass the Range NAZIs?

Hummmm.....maybe he and his friends should have voted correctly in the first place?

Aloha, Mark

I believe they intentionally wrote the law to be ambiguous with the term "permanently altering". I think @Alexx1401 is spot on when he said the term will be interpreted differently depending on the jurisdiction. If you get some real anti-gun nut DA like in Multnomah Co you might have trouble with just a riveted limiter block. But in Kalmath county maybe they won't give a rip. When it becomes an issue and you are subject to a trial, you will have to think about how the jury might interpret the term permanently altering"

I noticed that the authors of IP 17 have eliminated the parts kit loophole. They must have learned from Colorado's mistake on that issue.

 

[arakboss]

A liberal application of tar and feathers will cure your 10-round mag limit!!
As far as modifications go, there isn't any mod that can't be undone by someone with knowledge, motivation, and a few tools.

I agree.

 

[ma96782]

Whatever......
Be my guest and be the "test case".

I think that realistically.....
The Dems and Anti-gun crowd don't give a rip. Unless and until..... something happens. THEN...they'll probably say that they tried to STOP crime by enacting "reasonable and common sense legislation".

Rrrrrright.....we should ALL follow their lead, ALWAYS. THEY are reasonable and have common sense....while if you oppose them, YOU don't have either trait.

WELL.......


BUT, But, but......if and since YOU didn't comply?

Yup....YOU'RE instantly in the category of CRIMINAL.

See how that works?

The LAW, if it passes (at this point), is just to further dissuade gun ownership and make YOU into a CRIMINAL if you don't comply.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....knock, knock......

"POLICE! SEARCH WARRANT, OPEN UP!"

 

[P7M13]

A liberal application of tar and feathers will cure your 10-round mag limit!!
As far as modifications go, there isn't any mod that can't be undone by someone with knowledge, motivation, and a few tools.

I think if Pro-2A folk weren't so law abiding, there would have already been tar and feathering parties, and perhaps a few draw and quarterings done.