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Mentoring? IPSC training?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by TAT2D, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. TAT2D

    TAT2D Portland Member

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    My son (age 20) and I are new to shooting. I joined TCGC a couple months ago and we've been out there several times to the indoor .22 range to poke holes in targets. We're shooting a Ruger Mk-II and improving steadily. We both got incrementally better after reading and applying the info in the Massad Ayoob article--

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

    I'm thinking we could both benefit from working with someone who could offer some advice before we begin learning bad habits. Is there a way to hook up with a mentor at TCGC? I've looked over the website and newsletter and didn't see anything that sounded quite like what I'm after. I suppose I could put a note up on the bulletin board.

    It also occurred to me that the IPSC training might be useful, but reading the info on TCGC's site, I get the impression that a .22 isn't going to be acceptable, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to talk my Minister of Finance into a gun purchase any time soon. I did see the note that there is some loaner gear available. Do gun stores ever rent equipment? Only against purchase?

    Another question about the IPSC certification: Does that cover the 'demonstrated competence with a handgun' requirement for a concealed handgun license? From the description (see links) it sounds like it would.

    http://licenseinfo.oregon.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=license_seng&link_item_id=14705

    and

    http://www.leg.state.or.us/05reg/measures/sb0900.dir/sb0960.intro.html

    It's not that I'm eager to "start packin'" but it does seem like it would add some flexibility to transporting.

    Anyone have any thoughts or alternatives on these ideas?

    MrB
     
  2. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

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    You could submit an item for the newsletter asking if someone would be willing to help you out, and the bulletin board idea would also work. I would also recommend contacting the IPSC activity chairman listed in the TCGC newsletter and ask about mentoring and observing a match or two. According to the TCGC web site, there is a required orientation/training class and some "loaner gear" is available on a first-come basis, but I think that it is unlikely that a firearm would be part of that. And I'm not aware of any gun rental facility that lets you take the firearm off the premises.

    elsie
     
  3. actionflies

    actionflies Beaverton, Oregon Member

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    Let me see if I can answer all your questions. The smallest caliber you can shoot for ipsc is a 9mm. Since you have a MKII .22lr, you can shoot speed steel (1st. Sunday of the month). Speed steel is a lot of fun and easier than ipsc shooting since you don't have to move and shoot. For you to shoot at the action range/shoot in ipsc event, you need to get the ipsc class which is free to tcgc members. This does not waived the ccw as far as I know. There is no such thing as renting a gun to take home unless it's your buddy's gun. You can go to an indoor range and rent their guns and buy their ammo (expensive!) and shoot it there. There are no adult mentoring at tcgc but only youth mentoring. I recommend you do a search online 'how to shoot a handgun' and 'how to aim a handgun' and take that knowledge to the range. People at tcgc are friendly and if you see someone shooting with good technique, just go up to them and ask for advices. Goodluck!
     
  4. TAT2D

    TAT2D Portland Member

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    Upon reflection, I'm guessing the 9mm minimum is because you need to knock down steel targets and a .22 just doesn't have the oomph.

    And I'm guessing you're right, they mentioned some gear available for loan but also said things like 'knee pads might be useful' -- I'd guess that's the sort of gear they're offering. What threw me is that (I *think* I read) for the 'cowboy action' matches the guns are provided. I thought maybe that meant the club has a trove of firearms, but that does seem like a stretch.
    That was definitely a reach. Thanks.
    As I understand it, to use the action pits at all, inside or outside an IPSC match, you need the IPSC training and sticker on your name tag.

    I'd like to take the IPSC training session, since I think I might get a lot of practical value out of it. My goal isn't necessarily to compete in IPSC events, but to earn the credential/sticker to gain entre' to the action pits and learn as much as I can. The action pits are the only range on the site that allow rapid-fire, and home defense is my overall guiding goal.
    Reading the info on the OR state website, it seemed like satisfying the requirement for 'demonstrated knowledge' was pretty broad. I cited the couple relevant links I found in my opening post, to wit:

    (f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the
    following:
    ...
    (B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms
    safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of
    the course;
    ...
    (G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or
    class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law
    enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun
    safety was a component of the course;

    I read that as suggesting that even tho' it's an IPSC cert course, if the instructor is additionally NRA-certified (which seems likely?) I thought I'd be 'good to go.'
    Yeah, no surprise I guess, but thought it was worth asking...
    At the last work party, I did bump into the guy who's been maintaining the indoor range and offered to help. I'll try to reinforce that offer when I next see him. (Workin' on that networkin'.) Also, the kid and I read the Massad Ayoob bit on backwoodshome.com, and applying it improved measurably. I'll keep looking/reading. Thanks.
    Problem is, I don't know what good technique is. Last time I was there, there was a guy with a compact pistol w/ scope doing bench-rest shooting. That doesn't necessarily seem like it'd transfer over to what we're doing...

    Anyway, everyone, thanks for all the input. A big part of getting into the group is just figuring out how everything works. Also, I had no idea what 'speed steel' is. Now have just a *slightly* better idea. A series of short articles on the different events would be really useful for the newsletter (or website.)

    MrB
     
  5. TAT2D

    TAT2D Portland Member

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    I took a moment to talk with one of the IPSC organizers after the club meeting the other night. Asked if I can take the IPSC training and earn the sticker with a .22, even if I'm not going to compete in IPSC matches which require 9mm minimum.

    The short answer is no. They want to see competence with a larger caliber. So it's a catch-22 (no pun intended,) I could compete in speed-steel with my .22, but can't get the sticker w/o something larger to do the training. And the next words were, "...and don't buy a larger gun until you know more about what you want and need."

    Maybe I need to work the PlayboyPenguin 'rental' mode. It isn't really buying if I know I'm going to turn around and sell it in a month, right?

    MrB
     
  6. Gendaito

    Gendaito PDX Member

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    I would suggest the training classes at Oregon Firearms Academy (they are a sponsor here). They have classes on everything from basic beginner stuff (their all-day beginner class qualifies for an OR CHL) to basic defensive pistol handling and more.

    Other training places include the Clackamas County Public Safety Training Center, the Firearms Academy of Seattle, and Jim Jacobe (www.jimjacobe.com).

    Sounds like you and your son are really getting interested in shooting, so you should also get serious about your training as well. These training classes will be much more useful to you than just hanging out with a well-meaning but inexperienced teacher.
     
  7. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    An alternative means of getting certified for TCGC Action Range use is to attend the Cowboy Action class. I believe it is held once per month. Really nice people. You will end up using a revolver, rifle, and shotgun that day (if you don't have SASS approved firearms they will have ones on hand that you can use). There was a small charge to cover the ammunition expense.
     
  8. MarkSBG

    MarkSBG Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I would seriously consider taking one of OFA's classes. They have an add in the upper right corner of the forum.

    They offer a Basic Handgun Safety course that satisfies the CHL requirements and would be a very good place to start. While they don't allow 22s, they do rent out handguns and holsters.

    Get your training from an expert sooner and you won't pick up those hard to break habits. As a bonus, what wife could say no to you wanting to take a "Basic Handgun Safety" class?

    The OFA guys are top notch. Ask anyone who has taken one of their classes.
     
  9. TAT2D

    TAT2D Portland Member

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    Wif could say, "EEEeeekkkk," but to the extent she brought the firearms into our partnership (via inheritance) she wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. Certainly 'expenses' vs. 'capitol acquisitions' are two different animals.

    I'd very like to attend the OFA sequence. I just think I could get more out of it if I tap the local resources to get to a basic level of basic competence before signing up for a session. Certainly OFA has huge 'street cred' for training. I'm sure every dollar is well spent, and I'm delighted they're available as a local resource and here attending the 'boards.

    I was trying to be a little cagey, but the guy I talked with at the club meeting the other night offered an alternative. Since that involved him going out on a limb for me a good bit (a favor he did not owe me in any way,) I was hesitant to shout out my next move. Suffice to say I do have a next step planned.

    A friend participated in a recent 'cowboy action' match and said it was a hoot. I've got the flannel shirts and denim pants, but the boots would cost as much as a Makerov in .380 to do it w/o costume, but going this route does bypass the ISPC class waiting list (@ TCGC) I gather. I've owned two (USFS uniform) Stetson's in my life, managed to loose 'em both. (Major bummer, each.)

    I'm all onboard for training and I don't mind at all spending $ to tap the experience of folks that have more than me in the area. I'm just trying to work at it logically. I'll (we'll) get there, I do believe.

    Thank you, everyone.

    MrB
     
  10. Tilos

    Tilos Idaho Active Member

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    MrB:

    PM sent

    Tilos
     
  11. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    No special clothing needed for the Cowboy Action class. I showed up in street clothes as did most everyone else (need to bring eye and hearing protection of course).
     
  12. dobeman

    dobeman Hillsboro Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It's hard to tell exactly where OFA is - they are secretive about it - but it appears they are south of Corvallis area, not local to Portland area for sure. Do Portland people actually go that far to attend a training class?
     
  13. TAT2D

    TAT2D Portland Member

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    Didn't realize it was a secret. I kinda' had 'em pegged as in the Lebanon area somewhere, but maybe not. My kid is at OSU now, so we think nothing of jumping in the car to pop down to have dinner or whatever with him. About 75 minutes door-to-door.

    MrB
     
  14. dobeman

    dobeman Hillsboro Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    well the physical location of the facility is a secret. I have zoned in to the Lebanon area as well. And a 75 minute drive for a training class - for me that's like driving cross country LOL. Guess I'll stay local.