Men with guns -- outside town hall

[Shadow]

I guess I shouldn't be appalled. I never watch Chris Matthews so I didn't now how much of an idiot he is. He was obviously searching for anything to hang on to so that they could label this guy a nut.

 

[CEF1959]

I want to know more about this alleged federal law because quite frankly I've never heard of it. Does anybody know of any such law?

I'm going to attempt to look this up on google...

I can help. There were two federal Gun-Free School Zone Acts, one from 1990 and one from 1996.

The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 made it a crime to knowingly bring a firearm into a "school zone" defined to mean within 1000 feet.

That statute was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in United States v. Lopez in 1995, where the Supreme Court held that the law exceeded Congress's Commerce Clause power.

But Congress simply repassed essentially the same legislation in 1996, (the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1996, correcting the technical defects identified by the Court, in part by adding wording placing the burden on the prosecutor to prove an additional element, that the "firearm has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."

There are exceptions to the prohibition against having a gun within 1000 feet of a school:

1) firearms on private property (including homes used for home schooling);
2) unloaded firearms in a locked container or locked firearms rack in a motor vehicle;
3) unloaded firearms possessed while traversing school grounds to access hunting land;
4) entry authorized by the school;
5) persons licensed by state or local authorities (e.g. Oregon CHL);
6) individuals using a firearm in a school program;
7) law enforcement officers acting in an official capacity.

But notice that if you are on the public sidewalk outside your house or walking from the street to your property, your gun must be in a locked container unless one of the other exemptions applies.

That's why LEO forced this guy back onto church property with his gun. If someone needs a citation to the federal statute, let me know. I can dig it up.

 

[fingolfen]

I guess I shouldn't be appalled. I never watch Chris Matthews so I didn't now how much of an idiot he is. He was obviously searching for anything to hang on to so that they could label this guy a nut.

And really failed miserably... he tried really hard too... great poise...

 

[Jamie6.5]

Funny, but I've never considered exercising my constitutional or state rights to be a reckless act.

But then again I've never yelled "FIRE" in a theater either!

 

[New Oregonian]

Have you guys heard about the Principle (or superintendant) down in Texas that lets some of his teachers carry concealed on campus. Since guns and schools have been brought up? I can look for the link if anyones interested.

 

[CEF1959]

What's reckless is needlessly getting too close to a line that could get you killed just to make a point.

You may turn out after you are dead to have been on the right side of the line. But you'll still be dead. And if it's even a plausibly close case, no one will be punished.

It's especially reckless if the point you think you are making is interpreted such that you appear to be a loser idiot. Then you died for less than nothing -- you hurt the gun rights cause.

Imagine: Guy at Obama event shows up outside with a gun. Police keep an eye on him. During the event, as Obama is leaving, the guy moves funny in a way that looks to the Secret Service to be an unholstering of his weapon. He gets taken out. Afterward, there is a dispute over whether he was going for his gun (we know he's anti-Obama) or not. Either way, he's dead, and the Secret Service are off the hook. Think about that scenario: Does that persuade fence-sitters that peoples' gun rights should be expanded? Or was he just an idiot who got himself killed by being stupid?

 

[NK777]

What's reckless is needlessly getting too close to a line that could get you killed just to make a point.

You may turn out after you are dead to have been on the right side of the line. But you'll still be dead. And if it's even a plausibly close case, no one will be punished.

It's especially reckless if the point you think you are making is interpreted such that you appear to be a loser idiot. Then you died for less than nothing -- you hurt the gun rights cause.

Imagine: Guy at Obama event shows up outside with a gun. Police keep an eye on him. During the event, as Obama is leaving, the guy moves funny in a way that looks to the Secret Service to be an unholstering of his weapon. He gets taken out. Afterward, there is a dispute over whether he was going for his gun (we know he's anti-Obama) or not. Either way, he's dead, and the Secret Service are off the hook. Think about that scenario: Does that persuade fence-sitters that peoples' gun rights should be expanded? Or was he just an idiot who got himself killed by being stupid?

Does that persuade fence-sitters that peoples' gun rights should be expanded? This question doesn't apply because he wasn't trying to do that. He was instead merely exercising his current gun rights. He even says that in the interview.

was he just an idiot who got himself killed by being stupid? Overly bold and ballsy perhaps but I wouldn't use the word stupid no. The real crime here is that your right he could have been shot by the big old evil Federal Government and they would have gotten away with murder. This actually could spark off a Civil War of a sort, The People VS the Federal Government.

 

[CEF1959]

Does that persuade fence-sitters that peoples' gun rights should be expanded? This question doesn't apply because he wasn't trying to do that. He was instead merely exercising his current gun rights. He even says that in the interview.

Why was he carrying openly while protesting a presidential visit? Protecting himself? His family? No, he was just making a point, maybe garner a little attention. It worked. He's the Joe the Plumber of the month. If you think carrying openly just to make a point and draw attention to yourself is a good idea, fine. I just disagree.

And if he'd gotten shot, he would have been portrayed and remembered as an idiot, not a bold protector of liberty.... for 3 days. Then forgotten. How stupid is that?

 

[jimwsea]

On the other hand, he may have been carrying his sidearm just like he legally does every day, in a state that allows him to do so. Maybe that's why he chooses to live there. And, just like virtually every other day, nothing causes him to even think about drawing his gun.

It takes someone like Matthews to focus on the gun and open an unnecessary can of worms. Matthews could have asked a question like "if you saw someone attacking the president, would you have drawn you gun and protected him?" Unfortunately, he didn't, fostering a belief that a person choosing to carry carrying a gun is only looking for trouble. Just because someone chooses to protest your proposals doesn't mean they want to kill you.

Makes me wonder how many people open or concealed carried during the candidate visits and town hall meetings and caucuses, but nobody brought it up so people didn't think about it.

 

[eriknemily]

That man had incredibly poise and clarity in his interview with Matth-spews. Over 8 minutes of being egged on and he couldn't get him to say something that would make a good soundbite. Way to go William!!!!

 

[NK777]

On the other hand, he may have been carrying his sidearm just like he legally does every day, in a state that allows him to do so. Maybe that's why he chooses to live there. And, just like virtually every other day, nothing causes him to even think about drawing his gun.

It takes someone like Matthews to focus on the gun and open an unnecessary can of worms. Matthews could have asked a question like "if you saw someone attacking the president, would you have drawn you gun and protected him?" Unfortunately, he didn't, fostering a belief that a person choosing to carry carrying a gun is only looking for trouble. Just because someone chooses to protest your proposals doesn't mean they want to kill you.

Makes me wonder how many people open or concealed carried during the candidate visits and town hall meetings and caucuses, but nobody brought it up so people didn't think about it.

I agree that is a very real possibility. He may very well carry everyday for personal protection and only took extra procautions knowing full well that he'd be in a sensitive situation. In other words the getting promission from the church to be there may well have been an extra procaution taken because he knew the Fed's would be all concerned about his presents.