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Men with guns -- outside town hall

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by terrylf72, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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  2. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    Good I'm glad he was there with his gun carrying openly. Further more I'm very happy to see he wasn't arrested for not breaking the law.

    The comments from that news article are disturbing though. Bunch of idiot suedo intellectuals saying stupid anti gun garbage. Gee Walley you think maybe maybe he wasn't trying to intimidate people and just maybe maybe he was just making a point and educating the public as well as or government that we do not desire to lose our 2nd Amendment Rights.
     
  3. New Oregonian

    New Oregonian Lane County Member

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    look at how anti gun our nation and especially the media is that a man wearing a gun OC has made the national media. Its hopefully a little positive media exposure for our 2nd amendment.
     
  4. Greenbaum

    Greenbaum Vancouver, WA Member

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    The anti-gun persona is a viral infection that’s going to take a revolution to stop or slow it down. It started years ago and we did nothing to get in its way. Now, we're behind the eight ball.

    Guns create an image of death or violence. Too some, you even start talking about a gun and the sheep-people start to get uncomfortable. It's like the first sex talk with Dad...

    The men of the World are running the sheep of the World.

    I'm not a radical conservative! I just don't need someone telling me that how to live my life, because they make decisions off of feelings, not commonsense and good judgment!

    I’m not an intellectual like some of you, so what I want to say doesn’t always sound… Perfect. Just think before you act. Bottom line, stay smart and remember, that one act might hurt you, but continues to cause negative impressions on all of us.

    ... and this guy needed some more supporters. He can't fight a war on his own, but you can in numbers.
     
  5. jrw

    jrw Beaverton Member

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    Chris Matthews tries to make this guy look like in idiot but it back fires on Chris! This guy is great and presents himself in a very professional and intelligent way. The video is attached.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUmCj4yud4
     
  6. New Oregonian

    New Oregonian Lane County Member

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    Excellent video link there. Thank you for posting it. I hadn't heard about this. The guy handled himself well and is a great example of what he represents and many of us believe.:cheer::flag:
     
  7. Contract_Pilot

    Contract_Pilot Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    America Used to be the land of the free home of the brave, now its land of the controlled home of cowards... this guy is a real patriot standing up for his rights.

    The goverment controls the general public with "Pansy Pills"
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/09/antidepressants/index.html

    "Whats the difference between and drug dealer and a drug pusher? The pusher had an MD after his name"
     
  8. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Good for him.

    There was a man with a loaded gun near the president, that wasn't Secret Service, and the president didn't get injured or harmed in any way.

    The more that happens, the better people will look at Firearms.
     
  9. milwaukieman

    milwaukieman SE Portland Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That was a great video, thank you for posting.
     
  10. jrw

    jrw Beaverton Member

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    Happy to post the video, I had an idea that everyone would appreciate it.
     
  11. Lars

    Lars Clackamas Active Member

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    I went through and read a bunch of the comments on youtube. There are a lot of freedom haters out there.
     
  12. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    My take: Wrong venue to try to make that point. A firearm around the Pres. is just not smart, even if legal. You can bet that this guy was in the crosshairs of a Secret Service sharpshooter the whole time. Just carrying, knowing you could never get it out of the holster in that scenario, seems pointless. If he had made a suspicious move while the Pres. was going by--even accidentally--he would have taken a bullet in the chest.

    So we're back to whether OC just to make a point is a good idea. I vote no. And in this case, it was stupidly dangerous.
     
  13. New Oregonian

    New Oregonian Lane County Member

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    Your right that he wouldn't have been able to get the gun out if he needed to, but was that really the point. He was taking a stand for the 2nd amendment...and he did very well in the video controlling his emotions and speaking like an educated person which I must say would be challenging when being snapped at by Chris on the show about a subject that he obviously felt passionate about. I challenge you to show me a better example of a positive public demonstration of the 2nd amendment in the last 2years. ( It could be older if you like but 2 years seems relevant). I may be ignorant on this, if so I will apologize. So I leave it to you...
     
  14. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    I think Wayne LaPierre and a lot of other fine people make the public case regularly and in a more persuasive fashion. This was a reckless act by a man who wanted just to make a point. And being reckless with respect to firearms hurts the gun rights movement.

    But as I said, this takes us back to the disagreement over whether OC just to make a point is a good idea. I vote no. I know others disagree.

    As I've said elsewhere on this forum, I don't think OC makes the point we gun advocates intend to make. I think among the undecideds it ramps up public opposition to guns generally. But I may be wrong. It'd be interesting to see some empirical study of this: How do people who are neither gun rights advocates nor gun opponents react when they see a person openly carrying? Or in this instance, how do they react when they see a person openly carrying in the vicinity of a presidential visit?

    I don't know the answer, but I'm guessing OC pushes more people away than draws them in, especially in this context.
     
  15. New Oregonian

    New Oregonian Lane County Member

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    I am with you as I don't know how this was and is perceived by the public and it may have pushed more people away our position on the 2nd amendment. I have a lot of respect for what this guy did though. He is a regular guy standing up for what he believes in. He might probably didn't do the best thing politically speaking, but I don't think politically we have been doing too much right lately. It was refreshing to see someone do something instead of just giving to the NRA to lobby to protect our rights. He did something tangible (maybe not smart choice in the long run). The NRA president has too much stereo type wrapped around him to have any effect on the public. We as adults have created our own biases and the word NRA sends bells and whistles going off in some people’s heads. Wayne LaPierre and the NRA therefore cannot hope to impact them. I see this guy as more of a rallying point to get the awareness among believers in the 2nd amendment to start doing something tangible.

    Aside from that I agree that open carry b/c you can is stupid. There was a previous thread on this and I agreed that just because it is a right doesn't mean you have to do it. If it is going to make others feel scared for their safety use your common sense. This was a public demonstration that was supposed to get attention. He succeeded. Also this guy as far as I could tell is not a "pro" speaker/ constitutional expert/ attorney. He is a regular guy and he spoke up and made a point. Chris was trying to trap him and he performed well. I couldn't have defended myself that well on the hot seat while being verbally attacked by Chris on national TV.

    I think that people like him, you, and me are the ones that have the greatest potential to start change. (i'm not saying we will do it in the same way or that we think alike). The NRA can only do so much.
     
  16. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    Open carry is good for the movement. This "Don't ask, Don't tell" 2nd amendment fighting is silly. People need to see good people carrying guns period. It is the only way people are going to change there prospective. If it does nothing else it gets people talking about the subject.
     
  17. legalrights

    legalrights USA New Member

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    The local police chief said it's legal for the man to have a registered handgun -- as long as it is not concealed. What's more, he is on private property, a church yard, which has given him permission to be there.

    *** UPDATE *** More on the man with the gun... William Kostric is a married man in his mid 30S who works in sales. He says he moved here to New Hampshire from Arizona about a year ago, because it's a "live free or die" state -- and he thought Arizona was becoming too restrictive with its gun laws.

    He's passing out a bookmark that says, "Join the Second Amendment Revolution, the most exciting pro-liberty movement in over 200 years."

    He's a Ron Paul supporter, who opposes just about everything Obama, including health care reform.

    The local police say he is within his rights to carry a handgun openly under state law. He was carrying a 9-mm Smith and Wesson strapped to his lower leg.

    Police say he's OK on a public sidewalk. Kostric says he has permission from a church just down the street from the high school to be on its private property.

    He says he was approached by a "detective," possibly a Secret Service Agent, who told him he could be arrested within 1,000 feet of a school with a weapon under a federal law. Kostric moved back to private property.

    When Obama arrived, the police had Kostric under surveillance. A local police captain said the Secret Service has been "in the loop."

    Kostric has been about 50 to 75 yards from the entrance to the high school, since about 11:00 am ET, doing interviews and carrying a sign and his gun and police have had their eye on him. But as long as he's been "cooperative," they have watched, but let him be.

    apostille info
     
  18. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I want to know more about this alleged federal law because quite frankly I've never heard of it. Does anybody know of any such law?

    I'm going to attempt to look this up on google...
     
  19. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    Please post what you find. I live 3 house from a school and I open carry all the time walking my dog and when I have my kids on the weekends.
     
  20. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    Well I'm sorry I didn't keep track of the links but there was a law and it may be still active that states you can not carry a loaded firearm with in 1000 feet of a public school ground.

    Private property within 1000ft of the school grounds is exempt
    CCW holders are Exempt
    Law enforcement is obviously exempt

    There are other exemptions but I don't remember them all. Here's a link to my google search on the subject. http://www.google.com/search?source...GLL_en-GBUS305US305&q=federal+gun+law+schools