Meet your preparedness minded neighbor here

[arakboss]

Calories and nutrition are two different things. If you are in good health (taking in all the nutrients you need), you won't notice any difference except perhaps an upset stomach and your bubblegum will smell different until months into eating a poor (nutritionally speaking) diet.

Prepping means planning adequate caloric intake when literally else nothing is available. Without that you won't be around to get all our first world health problems. Cuz you'll have starved to death.

@Soli gets it.

 

[OrPackrat]

I stock vanilla protien powder, peanut butter powder, chia seeds, baby rice cereal, freeze dried chickens, freeze dried beef, and such

 

[arakboss]

I stock vanilla protien powder, peanut butter powder, chia seeds, baby rice cereal, freeze dried chickens, freeze dried beef, and such

Sounds like a water intensive diet. What is your water source?

 

[sobo]

Sounds like a water intensive diet. What is your water source?

...the Willamette River...?

 

[OrPackrat]

Sounds like a water intensive diet. What is your water source?

Stored Water, bottled, 5 gal, 275gal IBC tote, etc.

 

[Howard1955]

This topic has been on top of mind for me lately. I have serious concerns as to whether neighbors should unite or go it alone in a long term SHTF situation.

Security wise it would be useful if neighbors could unite to defend a neighborhood and prevent each family from having to defend against house to house marauding. The problem would be developing trust among your neighbors.

As for sharing info on supplies, I think that is a no go. Most neighbors are not going to prepare well. If all your neighbors know you have prepared well, you will be a target for guilt trips, begging and possibly even violence from your own neighbors or their acquaintances.

It would be nice if neighborhoods could unite to defend their blocks but it would be fraught with dangers from within.

I haven't read through this entire thread, so i don't know if this has already been shared.

It's a snippet of an old Twilight Zone episode.

 

[arakboss]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so i don't know if this has already been shared.

It's a snippet of an old Twilight Zone episode.

This is a likely scenario if your neighbors know you are fat with supplies and they get desperate. I am sure it would start with begging, then maybe collective shaming and finally theft of your supplies. If you have endless amounts of money and space, go ahead and store extra for your neighbors. If you don't, you might not want to share your prep levels with them, especially if they have kids.

 

[Camelfilter]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so i don't know if this has already been shared.

It's a snippet of an old Twilight Zone episode.

"The Shelter" episode. Classic!

 

[Soli]

A few days or week but what if it's a few months or a year and you are eating low-nutrient-dense foods, You will become nutrient deficient and more susceptible to diseases

I disagree you need more than calories; you can get all the calories you need from a 50# bag of C& H sugar, it's cheaper and it will probably kill you too! But there's no nutrition in that sugar, and it's bad for your body to consume in quality. You need nutrition, complex carbs, protein, fiber, good fats, minerals, and vitamins.

You often hear the phrase "prep what you eat," but I took a long hard look and realized I need to eat better; the first prep is yourself and prep food that is better for me to help maintain my health.

It takes years to suffer debilitating effects of not taking in most nutrients. It's a modern idea that without a balanced diet (or that "key suppliment!" lol), you'll get sick and die in short order, driven IMO by fear marketing. There are some exceptions (vitamin C comes to mind), but overall the human body is very tough and incredibly resilient. The race wouldn't have survived if it wasn't so.

Make no mistake, I'm not advocating prepping a poor diet. But getting lost in the maze of "is this healthy?!?" will cost you more money and wasted energy than it's worth.

For example, lets look at a cliche since I first lived with survivalists back in the 70s: the eternal Rice and Beans.

6 cans of LDS 30 year shelf life Pinto Beans costs about $60, 6 of White Rice about $55. Add a 48 oz can of Cisco shortening for about $10. Total of $115 spent. (The LDS will last forever; the Crisco about 1 to 2 years, so use it or even throw it away once a year and buy another.)

That $115 will, with water and a heat source, give you 115,510 calories. That's almost 2 months of 2,000 calories a day. (probably more calories than you should be eating each day anyway lol)

Not even going to look up nutrients in it, but I assume it's far from optimal. Don't care. It WILL keep you alive, without the body destroying effects of starvation ("eating" your own muscle tissue anyone?) for those 2 months. In a SHTF situation that's what matters.

And let me say IMO the most important thing you said is "I took a long hard look and realized I need to eat better." Yes!! The best way is to learn to cook/bake. From ingredients, not from a can/bottle. Go buy cuts of meat, dry beans, flour, sugar, spices, veggies, things not just heat and eat. Get some recipes and just do it. There's a real skill to cooking that only comes with doing it over and over. I guarantee that if you do you'll eat better, and much better for you, than most people.

 

[arakboss]

I hope the polarization we have here doesn't lead to this type of activity.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/africa/darfur-sudan-geneina-massacre-account-cmd-intl/index.html

They were neighbors prior to being shooters and targets.

 

[pdx210]

It takes years to suffer debilitating effects of not taking in most nutrients. It's a modern idea that without a balanced diet (or that "key suppliment!" lol), you'll get sick and die in short order, driven IMO by fear marketing. There are some exceptions (vitamin C comes to mind), but overall the human body is very tough and incredibly resilient. The race wouldn't have survived if it wasn't so.

No, you start to show deficiencies when you are deficient the cumulative heath effects can take years and your body to maintain metabolism will rob for itself to properly metabolize food, your body needs vitamins all the time.

These vitamins are critical to metabolize food

Riboflavin
Vitamin B6
Niacin
Biotin
Thiamine
Pantothenic acid
Folate

The race wouldn't have survived if it wasn't so.

For most of human history the human race didn't buy processed foods in stores they ate real foods . You can see this manifested in the rise of many "luxury diseases" overwhelmingly is related to poor diet we live largely on cheap carbs and sugar.

It's estimated right now that
94.3% of the US population do not meet the daily requirement for vitamin D,
88.5% for vitamin E,
52.2% for magnesium,
44.1% for calcium,
43.0% for vitamin A,
38.9% for vitamin C.
a15% Vitamin B 12 deficent

Let's look at Vitamin B12 deficiency can cause physical, neurological and psychological symptoms. Typically develop slowly and can get worse over time. People with vitamin B12 deficiency can have neurological symptoms

Neurological symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency can include:

• Numbness or tingling in your hands and feet.
• Vision problems.
• Having a hard time remembering things or getting confused easily.
• Having a difficult time walking or speaking like you usually do.
• If neurological problems develop from vitamin B12 deficiency, they may not be reversible.

Psychological symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency can include:

• Feeling depressed.
• Feeling irritable.
• Experiencing a change in the way you feel and behave

And we're not talking a SHTF and this is right now.

6 cans of LDS 30 year shelf life Pinto Beans costs about $60, 6 of White Rice about $55. Add a 48 oz can of Cisco shortening for about $10. Total of $115 spent. (The LDS will last forever; the Crisco about 1 to 2 years, so use it or even throw it away once a year and buy another.)

The problem with pinot beans and rice (even fortified ) they lack broader nutrition and Crisco is hydrogenated oil made from some of the worst oils hydrogenated soybean and palm oils is garbage, lard is better.

Let look at the nutrients in the foods above relative to the nutrient needed to process those foods. Your body needs these vitamins to process food are these nutrients in rice and beans....

Riboflavin - yes
Vitamin B6 - No
Niacin Yes
Thiamine No
Folate Yes

IF you take those pinto Beans soak them in water and sprout them for a few days first they contain all the nutrest above and at and add several more higher concentration

Riboflavin increases 620%
Vitamin B6 adds vitamin
Niacin 270% increase
Thiamine 40% increase
Folate 70% increase

Back to the point in SHTF your heath and protecting it is most important and many of the food preper's stock are poor in nutrition and many lack an understanding of caloric intake and nutrition

Nutrition Comparison: Pinto Beans Vs Bean Sprouts

Detailed nutrition comparison for pinto beans vs bean sprouts. Bean sprout is a great source of Vitamin C. Pinto bean is a great source of potassium. Bean sprout has 71% less carbohydrates than pinto bean. Bean sprout has more riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, Vitamin B6 and folate.

www.soupersage.com

 

[Soli]

Good info, tho I'm kind of cheating in that I'm aware. My wife used to teach nutrition.

While many do, we don't live on cheap carbs and sugar. Haven't for decades, really if ever, can't remember heh.

And you kind of prove my point anyway. When you get cooking you'll find, as will all preppers who do rice and beans, that you must soak your beans before you cook them. You'll end up with a few days worth of soaked, naturally sprouting even if you don't know it, as you find that soaking each night is a drag and they don't go bad that fast in the water. You'll also learn about washed vs unwashed rice. Better unwashed (barring dirt/filth in it), more good stuff stays in it. And voila, you're eating "real food" just like billions have done for all of history.

The good fat/bad fat dichotomy is real, but again long term. And not nearly as horrible as pop culture would have you believe. Edible oils are notoriously hard to store, they just go rancid too quickly. (Ask Napoleon lol) Better to have the calorie boost of the "unhealthy" processed to extend its life oil than go without in the name of long term health.

Anyway, I think our differences in emphasis come from my lack of buy in to the notion that diet determines health to the degree that is fashionable in the modern West. That really started in the 1800s and has become an article of faith to many. If all one eats are cheetos, gummy bears and coke then yeah, you'll die sooner (and feeling very bad along the way) than not doing that. But the extension of "that oil is poison and this one isn't!" and "this grain will kill you and that one won't!' and "never eat meat/always eat meat" is just modern neurosis. People through history have lived long lives eating incredbly limited diets. Like months on whale blubber (eskimos) or a couple of gallons of goat milk a day (herdsmen in Africa) or rice as 75% or more of the calories (Asia). Humans are made to eat anything; that's how we got this far.

 

[Jbsheepdog]

Cool discussion, nice to meet you guys

 

[arakboss]

Good info, tho I'm kind of cheating in that I'm aware. My wife used to teach nutrition.

While many do, we don't live on cheap carbs and sugar. Haven't for decades, really if ever, can't remember heh.

And you kind of prove my point anyway. When you get cooking you'll find, as will all preppers who do rice and beans, that you must soak your beans before you cook them. You'll end up with a few days worth of soaked, naturally sprouting even if you don't know it, as you find that soaking each night is a drag and they don't go bad that fast in the water. You'll also learn about washed vs unwashed rice. Better unwashed (barring dirt/filth in it), more good stuff stays in it. And voila, you're eating "real food" just like billions have done for all of history.

The good fat/bad fat dichotomy is real, but again long term. And not nearly as horrible as pop culture would have you believe. Edible oils are notoriously hard to store, they just go rancid too quickly. (Ask Napoleon lol) Better to have the calorie boost of the "unhealthy" processed to extend its life oil than go without in the name of long term health.

Anyway, I think our differences in emphasis come from my lack of buy in to the notion that diet determines health to the degree that is fashionable in the modern West. That really started in the 1800s and has become an article of faith to many. If all one eats are cheetos, gummy bears and coke then yeah, you'll die sooner (and feeling very bad along the way) than not doing that. But the extension of "that oil is poison and this one isn't!" and "this grain will kill you and that one won't!' and "never eat meat/always eat meat" is just modern neurosis. People through history have lived long lives eating incredbly limited diets. Like months on whale blubber (eskimos) or a couple of gallons of goat milk a day (herdsmen in Africa) or rice as 75% or more of the calories (Asia). Humans are made to eat anything; that's how we got this far.

Most eating related problems Americans have are from eating too many calories. Unlike bears many of us bulk up but don't take a winter break to burn off the excess.

 

[OrPackrat]

Most eating related problems Americans have are from eating too many calories. Unlike bears many of us bulk up but don't take a winter break to burn off the excess.

I just burn mine off when camping.

Huge energy output, minimal calorie input, lose upwards of 2lbs a day consuming 1k calories a day...

Got enough body fat for 3 weeks of that pace...

 

[pdx210]

And you kind of prove my point anyway. When you get cooking you'll find, as will all preppers who do rice and beans, that you must soak your beans before you cook them. You'll end up with a few days worth of soaked, naturally sprouting even if you don't know it, as you find that soaking each night is a drag and they don't go bad that fast in the water. You'll also learn about washed vs unwashed rice. Better unwashed (barring dirt/filth in it), more good stuff stays in it. And voila, you're eating "real food" just like billions have done for all of history.

The good fat/bad fat dichotomy is real, but again long term. And not nearly as horrible as pop culture would have you believe. Edible oils are notoriously hard to store, they just go rancid too quickly. (Ask Napoleon lol) Better to have the calorie boost of the "unhealthy" processed to extend its life oil than go without in the name of long term health.

Anyway, I think our differences in emphasis come from my lack of buy in to the notion that diet determines health to the degree that is fashionable in the modern West. That really started in the 1800s and has become an article of faith to many. If all one eats are cheetos, gummy bears and coke then yeah, you'll die sooner (and feeling very bad along the way) than not doing that. But the extension of "that oil is poison and this one isn't!" and "this grain will kill you and that one won't!' and "never eat meat/always eat meat" is just modern neurosis. People through history have lived long lives eating incredbly limited diets. Like months on whale blubber (eskimos) or a couple of gallons of goat milk a day (herdsmen in Africa) or rice as 75% or more of the calories (Asia). Humans are made to eat anything; that's how we got this far.

Good info, tho I'm kind of cheating in that I'm aware. My wife used to teach nutrition.

While many do, we don't live on cheap carbs and sugar. Haven't for decades, really if ever, can't remember heh.

And you kind of prove my point anyway. When you get cooking you'll find, as will all preppers who do rice and beans, that you must soak your beans before you cook them. You'll end up with a few days worth of soaked, naturally sprouting even if you don't know it, as you find that soaking each night is a drag and they don't go bad that fast in the water. You'll also learn about washed vs unwashed rice. Better unwashed (barring dirt/filth in it), more good stuff stays in it. And voila, you're eating "real food" just like billions have done for all of history.

The good fat/bad fat dichotomy is real, but again long term. And not nearly as horrible as pop culture would have you believe. Edible oils are notoriously hard to store, they just go rancid too quickly. (Ask Napoleon lol) Better to have the calorie boost of the "unhealthy" processed to extend its life oil than go without in the name of long term health.

Anyway, I think our differences in emphasis come from my lack of buy in to the notion that diet determines health to the degree that is fashionable in the modern West. That really started in the 1800s and has become an article of faith to many. If all one eats are cheetos, gummy bears and coke then yeah, you'll die sooner (and feeling very bad along the way) than not doing that. But the extension of "that oil is poison and this one isn't!" and "this grain will kill you and that one won't!' and "never eat meat/always eat meat" is just modern neurosis. People through history have lived long lives eating incredbly limited diets. Like months on whale blubber (eskimos) or a couple of gallons of goat milk a day (herdsmen in Africa) or rice as 75% or more of the calories (Asia). Humans are made to eat anything; that's how we got this far.

Soaking overnight isn't the same as sprouting. Rice and beans are a great source of energy, rice is poor source of micronutrients and has a low overall nutritional value beyond carbohydrates and protein. Most rice particularly in 3rd world countries and uncle Ben's in the USA is fortified with essential vitamins with because it lacks nutrition on its own. In countries that lived on rice as a staple it was supplemented with fresh vegetables and meant. Rice and beans is a good source of carps and protein its a poor source of overall nutrtion.


Traditionally humans consumed a nutrient dense animal protein diet and two hundred years ago grain, flour or refined sugar and vegetable fats these were more expensive than nutrient dense animal proteine. In the course of a 100+ years that inverted due to farm mechanization, pesticides, irrigation, selective crop breeding, GMO grains and seed crops became cheap

Fat's aren't bad and you need fats for you the wrong fats in too high proportion are bad. We have access to more refined fats in volume today than at any time in history particularly plant fats that had only existed in large amounts for a hundred or so years. Cheap oils such as Corn oil, Palm and soybean oil that are bad for you and drive inflammation and inflation is a key driver in many diseases.


The top two killers in America are heart disease & Cancer in the top 10 are diabetes and stroke the are a number of factors that drive these but one factor they all have in common are Lifestyle Choices ; Smoking, a high-fat diet, high sodium, high sugar, high refined food consumption


I don't want to get too far afield "you should prep what you eat" is often kicked around as in the photo I posted and many people are prepping poor quality food high in inflammatory fats, sugar, sodium and nutrient light like rice but more to the point poor nutrition that likely carries over to their day to day lives.

Anti-Inflammatory Oils You Should Be Using (and Inflammatory Ones To Avoid)

Some cooking oils promote inflammation, while other oils are anti-inflammatory. Learn which oils are best for an anti-inflammatory diet, and which oils to avoid because they cause inflammation.

www.allrecipes.com

 

[American123]

Interesting thoughts on nutrition in prepping. Clearly a balance is needed for foods that will be nutritionally adequate, but also simply enough stock to avoid starvation even if it isn't the most nutritious.

Vitamins anyone? You can prep vitamins, even if you only have a single costco bottle in rotation of Multi and C, that's a years worth of vitamin intake. Just go through it and buy a replacement to help keep what's in stock still potent.

Water sources / purification are clearly vital since it's 3 days to death without water.

As far as planning with others, that's a giant dilemma. If people have done zero prep before a dire situation, it'll be very likely they are only a draw on resources at best or a threat/security nightmare at worst.

Chatting with people ahead of time to gauge levels of interest could be helpful. If they blow you off as a crazy prepper, that's good to know. If they start to discuss some ideas, there's room for growth there.

Around here it's easy for me to gauge who will be useful and who would be a concern or a unnecessary draw on resources. People who choose to own guns with the intention of defending themselves are already on the right track for the notion of prepping, people who are averse to firearms or are unwilling to be prepared to defend themselves are not.

Obviously a well rounded prep is not just guns, but if someone is prepping without that component we know they are just effectively storing supplies for somebody else.

 

[pdx210]

Interesting thoughts on nutrition in prepping. Clearly a balance is needed for foods that will be nutritionally adequate, but also simply enough stock to avoid starvation even if it isn't the most nutritious. Vitamins anyone? You can prep vitamins, even if you only have a single costco bottle in rotation of Multi and C, that's a years worth of vitamin intake. Just go through it and buy a replacement to help keep what's in stock still potent.

I buy/ take and stock vitamins the only issue with the shelf life, particularly multi-vitamins and some essential nutrients like Iron don't absorb well in pill form and are best in plant form like spinach. My point is in a SHTF high stress, sleep deprivation, manual work, and lack of access to a doctor you probably want to make sure you are getting as many essential nutrients to keep you healthy as possible.

Water sources / purification are clearly vital since it's 3 days to death without water.

Have some stored water and irrigation rainwater harvesting, Don't live too far from a creek and have a few different water filter systems Berkey water filter, Katadyn backpack filters, Life straw, and water distiller

Chatting with people ahead of time to gauge levels of interest could be helpful. If they blow you off as a crazy prepper, that's good to know. If they start to discuss some ideas, there's room for growth there.

Yeah, that's an issue, Several of my neighbors are good but one I see as a problem, how much do you say to people?

Obviously a well rounded prep is not just guns, but if someone is prepping without that component we know they are just effectively storing supplies for somebody else.

I agree. Another is security, particularly perimeter security at some point it's going to show you are not as bad off as everyone else, then what?