Medford Police: Being "Proactive"

[longcolt]

One of the side effects of a "free society" is that people get killed. They have the freedom to buy guns, bungee jump, skydive, race cars on tracks, etc. Lots of dangerous things that can endanger others.

Its a slippery slope to profile someone who is angry following a job loss. Who would not be angry. To have the police profile and pick up each person that said they were mad at a boss or coworkers following a layoff would keep the police very busy.

That said, I suspect that a family member was concerned and notified the police that the man may be a risk to himself or others. I hope that is the situation. To think that the police are now the ones doing a 'reasonableness test" on the mental well being of citizens would scare the heck out of me.

 

[Hawaiian]

Like others said, we don't know all the facts and are speculating. But, "something" happened that concerned his employer enough to call the police. We do not know what threats might have been made or what coworkers may have reported. Whatever it was got the attention of the police to look into it. And the results of their investigation gave them enough concern to take the action they did. The Medford police may well have stopped something terrible from happening.
I can say that I have never bought three guns in one day. And if I was loosing my job and paycheck, I would not be buying anything other than food. OK, and a case of beer.

 

[durango#95]

If a story came out a week from now that this guy killed someone or many people and it was found out the police new he was buying firearms people would be pissed.

Problem is, it is these same people who are after our guns in the 1st place. If LE was keeping an eye on this man in the 1st place, and did not interpret/bend/flex the law how they saw fit, and he DID go out and shoot some one, do you think they (LE) would step right up and say "Oh yeah, we knew he had been stockpiling guns & ammo"
The only reason they would, would be to get the people to scream for gun snatching.

Bottom line: He has not committed a crime! By the LE's own admition this was a preemptive strike! Not leagle, not warented, and NOT right.

 

[Hawaiian]

The police can not act unless a crime was commited. We don't know the facts. What if he made a threat, even to a coworker? That is a crime.
There is alot more than the news story is reporting. We can all talk until we are blue in the face, but none of us really know all the facts. Too many 'what if's'.

 

[Devryn]

It is socialism it is authoritarian....

How time have you been told or heard the statement we can't do any thing
because he hasen't broken any laws.

Touche!!! How many women try to get a restraining order against a violent partner and are told that very thing then sentenced to life in prison when they defend themselves and/or their children? There are a great deal of facts left out of the original story about this man. But that only raises more cause for concern. What was the probable cause? How did they get a judge to sign off a warrant on special circumstances as required for any LEO action prior to 7:00am? Aside from that, if the man did not actually cause harm or touch another individual, he has broken no laws. This should be setting off alarms here people. United States Supreme Court cases on PC precedence are very clear. Even if we don't have every shred of detail about the case here, the information that was given is in blatant disregard for the laws in and of itself.

 

[ZachS]

Based on the report, this individual is not facing any criminal charges - instead, he faces some type of civil commitment. Totally different standards apply. I don't know anything about those standards, so I'm not going to attempt to analyze this further.

 

[pokerace]

Touche!!! How many women try to get a restraining order against a violent partner and are told that very thing then sentenced to life in prison when they defend themselves and/or their children? There are a great deal of facts left out of the original story about this man. But that only raises more cause for concern. What was the probable cause? How did they get a judge to sign off a warrant on special circumstances as required for any LEO action prior to 7:00am? Aside from that, if the man did not actually cause harm or touch another individual, he has broken no laws. This should be setting off alarms here people. United States Supreme Court cases on PC precedence are very clear. Even if we don't have every shred of detail about the case here, the information that was given is in blatant disregard for the laws in and of itself.

I was thinking that same thing!!!

In a lot of these post's I see a lot IF and MAYBE.You know if the guy was going to do this or maybe he was going to shoot some one.

If and Maybe's not cut it for an arrest.

 

[Ravenous]

If and Maybe's not cut it for an arrest.

He wasn't fired and he wasn't arrested. He was placed on administrative leave for a reason. The police responded for a reason. We do not know the reason. If the reason was cut and dry we would know. They took him in for a mental health evaluation for a reason. We do not know the reason for that either. If and maybe's might not cut it for an arrest but they seem to cut it for complaining about the LEO actions.

We do not know the facts!

 

[Devryn]

He wasn't fired and he wasn't arrested. He was placed on administrative leave for a reason. The police responded for a reason. We do not know the reason. If the reason was cut and dry we would know. They took him in for a mental health evaluation for a reason. We do not know the reason for that either. If and maybe's might not cut it for an arrest but they seem to cut it for complaining about the LEO actions.

We do not know the facts!

You are absolutely correct. We don't know everything about the situation. We know what they want us to know. That said, look at what they are wanting us to know. Does that not seem reason enough to cause alarm? Seriously, there are many legalities here. It is not a cut and dry issue of one. There are events that occurred here that we do know about, or at least what they want us to know about it. Quite frankly, that is just as alarming. I am not necessarily condemning LEO actions, but if they are going to make this type of stand, then the details had best be present as well. As I said, there is not just one issue here in question. The man "voluntarily" went with LEO's to mental health eval? If you were in your home, alone, at 5:45am, would you - as a rational person - feel as though you were free to leave and disregard the LEO's? Well my friends that is the legal demonstrative line establishing CUSTODY. Yeah, it causes a great deal of alarm and for good reason.

 

[Ravenous]

Sure I'm alarmed. As somebody who will be purchasing many firearms in the near future it does have me concerned that they may use that to flag me. However I also know with first hand experience that they(police) try not to leak out information that could harm the person or the department. This story just broke today. Do you know about the mental stability of this person? Do you know whether he was going to hurt himself or others? Maybe somebody called with his well being in mind. I am just saying that being alarmed without knowing the facts is paranoia. Sure we can discuss it, but how many people are already outraged that the police and SWAT violated this person's rights. We don't know that they did. I could see this being a reaction to a heavily armed suicidal person. Why would they bring in negotiators? This could also be a complete assault on his rights and I will be just as mad as anybody, but until I hear it or see it then I am going with innocent until proven guilty....as ironic as that is in this case

 

[soberups]

"They don't send negotiators and SWAT without a decent reason. "
Delusional. SWAT was not authorized at all. There was no hostage situation or any critical reason to send SWAT. They could have sent a Sheriff over there to ask a couple questions and make sure the person was of sound mind. He committed no crime. PERIOD.

So...would you volunteer to be the guy who goes by yourself and "asks a couple of questions" to an apparently disgruntled person who had just bought an AK-47 after losing his job?

Here in the Pacific Northwest we have had something like 7 or 8 cops gunned down by nut jobs in the last 6 months. I for one dont blame them for wanting to err on the side of caution.

I'm not saying what the cops did was right, or wrong. We dont have enough information. We dont know if the guy made any threats, or was suicidal, or had any sort of history of violent behavior.

If it turns out to be false arrest, the guy can file a lawsuit and get his guns back.

 

[eriknemily]

He wasn't fired and he wasn't arrested. He was placed on administrative leave for a reason. The police responded for a reason. We do not know the reason. If the reason was cut and dry we would know. They took him in for a mental health evaluation for a reason. We do not know the reason for that either. If and maybe's might not cut it for an arrest but they seem to cut it for complaining about the LEO actions.

We do not know the facts!

This is an honest question. What constitutes an arrest? If, according to the story, the guy went 'voluntarily' then I suppose technically he wasn't arrested. But had he refused to go with the police then they would have forced him to go. The cops weren't going to show up in that big of a parade and leave empty handed just because the guy wanted to stay home.

Other than that point I think we'll have to wait til there are more details to determine what went on here. I have a hard time believing that many resources would be utilized that early in the morning on a hunch.

 

[pogi]

The interesting thing is that I had a mentally ill neighbor who verbally threatened me with a gun and when I reported it the cops laughed and said she was a "protected class" and there was nothing they could/would do.

I bought a mini-14 and a Vepr AK. I also ditched my liberalism once I saw what the system was really about (job preservation) and became conservative by default.

Interestingly enough, the "protected class" actually had a gun they found once they moved her out and into a section 8 complex.

So much for the proactive approach in Portland.

 

[DootyBeet]

"In two days, the man bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber universal self-loading handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 assault rifle, Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said. All of those firearms were purchased legally, with required record checks by the Oregon State Police."

I want one of these self-loading H&K's. Mine requires work which fatigues my thumbs.

 

[Riot]

Again guys, there is info in the article that is missing.

How did the police know he was buying weapons? Police officers don't have some majic computer that looks people up to tell them what weapons you've purchased (unless you're the Feds). <-Before anyone comments on this, yes they can look up serial numbers and check to see if a gun was stollen and it will link it back to the last registered owner. Nevertheless, it has to be reported stollen for it to be in this system.

Something led to the police to be interested in this guy and his collection. So, he either threatened to come in shooting the place or opened his suck about getting even with his co-workers. Either way THE POLICE WERE DOING THEIR JOBS. If you guys can't see past your own personal biasness against police, there is nothing I can do for you. This closed-minded approach is what seperates us as American citizens...in my eyes, you're no better than the people rooting for a guy beating up a police officer on the street.

It's called "Group Think", and you should seek out the truth in any situation by asking more questions than just simply going down the path that suits your own.

 

[Just Jim]

Again guys, there is info in the article that is missing.

How did the police know he was buying weapons? Police officers don't have some majic computer that looks people up to tell them what weapons you've purchased (unless you're the Feds). <-Before anyone comments on this, yes they can look up serial numbers and check to see if a gun was stollen and it will link it back to the last registered owner. Nevertheless, it has to be reported stollen for it to be in this system.

Something led to the police to be interested in this guy and his collection. So, he either threatened to come in shooting the place or opened his suck about getting even with his co-workers. Either way THE POLICE WERE DOING THEIR JOBS. If you guys can't see past your own personal biasness against police, there is nothing I can do for you. This closed-minded approach is what seperates us as American citizens...in my eyes, you're no better than the people rooting for a guy beating up a police officer on the street.

It's called "Group Think", and you should seek out the truth in any situation by asking more questions than just simply going down the path that suits your own.

Just remember when they come to your door it's for the good of everyone else and "THE POLICE WERE DOING THEIR JOBS". Would you like one of us to go ahead and lead them to your collection

Geez

jim

 

[eriknemily]

Just remember when they come to your door it's for the good of everyone else and "THE POLICE WERE DOING THEIR JOBS". Would you like one of us to go ahead and lead them to your collection

Geez

jim

PICK ME PICK ME

 

[Just Jim]

I have nothing against the police but they are not mind readers. They are here to uphold the laws and if they break the laws in upholding them then why do we have them here? Bad enough they are snooping in every purchase of guns in Oregon but to arrest a man and take his guns without a warrant is a police state.

Look for more of this as the country slips deeper into a depression. Plus your name is on the list when they decide they better go door to door. They will too if they see they can get away with this. If of course what we are reading is the real facts.

jim

 

[Just Jim]

PICK ME PICK ME

I can see ole riot now here take my guns before I hurt someone

jj

 

[Riot]

Look for more of this as the country slips deeper into a depression. Plus your name is on the list when they decide they better go door to door. They will too if they see they can get away with this. If of course what we are reading is the real facts.

jim

That is an entirely different subject...one that I agree with.

I can see ole riot now here take my guns before I hurt someone

You other post is just unneccessary because I happen to agree with what the officers did. If you don't have anything else to banter back with then I guess I'm done with this thread.

Just one last question....how old are you?