measure 66-67 pass in Oregon

[Gunner69]

My one prediction for this whole mess is that we see 15-18% unemployment inside of a year with all the small businesses closures and large corporation move jobs and headquarters to more business friendly states.. My wife's company already told her that if it passed they would probably move their headquarters to Arizona inside of 6mos.

 

[Bigbaddude]

The company I work for said layoff would happen if this thing passed.
Hope it was just talk.

 

[husker]

A law passed a few days ago making companies as a person. So does this mean a company that makes more than 250 will be taxed for that also?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Well PBP considering that you are now going to be taxed on your GROSS sales and not your net profit it will most likely have a direct effect on you and every other small business out there.. I know that since its retro active you get to pay it this year to start with..

I know that the guy that does all my FFL transfers etc is going to get nailed for an additional 1800.00 after just 1 year in business.

That is the way it is already done. I am taxed monthly based on my payroll which is in direct correlation with my gross sales. Nothing is really changing for me. Nor is it changing for the vast majority of businesses. Especially not the top earning businesses that spent all the money trying to defeat this bill. They will only suffer now because the biggest companies will loss a lot of the deductions they subtract from their earnings in bonuses, payout, off shores, etc.

I know a local restaurant chain that shows a yearly earnings report of $1 every year even though they have several locations. They manage this through diverting funds into tax shelters and off shore holdings. That will be a little harder to do now.

I guess some people are very pro-corporation and believe they should be above taxes.

Here is a big idea, if these companies raise the prices of their products because they feel they are now not making big enough fortunes do not buy their product.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

My one prediction for this whole mess is that we see 15-18% unemployment inside of a year with all the small businesses closures and large corporation move jobs and headquarters to more business friendly states.. My wife's company already told her that if it passed they would probably move their headquarters to Arizona inside of 6mos.

Do you have any idea how many small business owners have an average yearly household income of greater than $250,000? Let me help you out...an insignificant amount. The last figures I saw said it was about 3%. Small businesses do not maintain large cash holdings and they do not divert large cash holdings overseas. They pay their bills and what is left afterwards they pay to themselves as a taxed salary.

Here is what the bill does..

Under current law, corporations conducting business in Oregon pay $10 minimum income tax; tax has not changed since 1931. Some corporations pay a profits tax of 6.6%. All other businesses pay no minimum or profits tax. Beginning in tax year 2009, the Measure increase $10 minimum corporate tax to $150; some corporations with over $500,000 in Oregon revenues will pay minimum tax of approximately 0.1% of Oregon revenues. Limits tax to $150 for S corprations and partnerships. Sole proprietors are not impacted by this measure. Raises tax rates some corporations pay on profits by 1.3 percentage points until 2011; increase then drops to 1 percentage point and as of 2013, applies only to profits over $10 million. Corporations pay minimum tax or profits tax, not both. Increases filing fees by $50 for Oregon businesses, by $225 for out of the state business. Raises estimated $255 million to provide funds currently budgeted for education, health care, public safety, other services. Because some state money brings in federal matching funds, Oregon will likely receive more federal money if measure passes than if the Measure fails. Other provisions

Now where is all this "your taxes are going to skyrocket" crap coming from? I just do not see tax rates on profits that exceed $250,000 increasing by 1.3% on C type corporations as affecting any small businesses I am familiar with.

I really, really, really wish I made enough money for this bill to affect me.

 

[motoman98]

Are we forgetting the new Gross Receipts tax, ie: backdoor Sales Tax? This one will bite us all....and just the "Camel's Nose" under the tent, just wait!

 

[NoAim]

That is the way it is already done.

This is generally not true. From Oregon's Dept. of Revenue: <broken link removed>

Corporate Tax Types
Oregon has two types of corporate taxes: Excise and Income.

Excise tax is a tax for the privilege of doing business in Oregon. It is measured by net income. All corporations doing business in Oregon must file an Oregon corporation excise tax return and pay the minimum excise tax. Corporation excise tax laws are in Chapter 317 of the Oregon Revised Statutes.

Income tax is for corporations not doing business in Oregon, but with income from an Oregon source. If you have tangible or intangible property or other assets that you are using in Oregon, any income you receive is Oregon source income. Generally, your company must file an Oregon Corporation Income Tax Return, Form 20-I. Corporation income tax laws are in Chapter 318 of the Oregon Revised Statutes.

"Doing business" means being engaged in any profit-seeking activity in Oregon. A taxpayer with an Oregon address or having one or more of the following in this state is clearly doing business in Oregon:

* A stock of goods.
* An office.
* A place of business (other than an office) where affairs of the corporation are regularly conducted.
* Employees or representatives providing services to customers as the primary business activity (such as accounting or personal services), or services incidental to the sale of tangible or intangible personal property (such as installation, inspection, maintenance, warranty, or repair of a product).
* An economic presence through which the taxpayer regularly takes advantage of Oregon's economy to produce income.

"Oregon source income" is income from tangible or intangible property or other assets being used in Oregon. If you have Oregon source income, generally, your company must file an Oregon Corporation Tax Return. Public Law 86-272 provides exceptions to this requirement. For a more detailed explanation see Foreign Corporations with Headquarters outside of Oregon (Nexus).

Any corporation doing business in Oregon is required to register with the Secretary of State Corporation Division and file corporate excise tax returns.

Corporations not doing business in Oregon, and with no Oregon source income, even if incorporated in or registered to do business in the state, are not required to file a corporation tax return.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

This is generally not true. From Oregon's Dept. of Revenue: <broken link removed>

You are confusing how taxes are estimated and gathered and how they are figured as a final number. The final number is not going to change for me at all since my profits do not exceed $250,000 a year...period. Businesses are not suddenly taxed on gross sales with no deductions or adjustments. That is a blatant lie spread by large corporations and their mouthpieces.

 

[NoAim]

You are confusing how taxes are estimated and gathered and how they are figured as a final number. The final number is not going to change for me at all since my profits do not exceed $250,000 a year...period. Businesses are not suddenly taxed on gross sales with no deductions or adjustments. That is a blatant lie spread by large corporations and their mouthpieces.

No, not really. Let's take these statements:

(a) If the corporation apportions business income under ORS 314.650 to 314.665 for Oregon tax purposes, the total sales of the taxpayers in this state during the tax year, as determined for purposes of ORS 314.665;

Add in the minimum tax language:

(a) If Oregon sales properly reported on a return are:

(A) Less than $500,000, the minimum tax is $150.
(B) $500,000 or more, but less than $1 million, the minimum tax is $500.
(C) $1 million or more, but less than $2 million, the minimum tax is $1,000.
(D) $2 million or more, but less than $3 million, the minimum tax is $1,500.
(E) $3 million or more, but less than $5 million, the minimum tax is $2,000.
(F) $5 million or more, but less than $7 million, the minimum tax is $4,000.
(G) $7 million or more, but less than $10 million, the minimum tax is $7,500.
(H) $10 million or more, but less than $25 million, the minimum tax is $15,000.
(I) $25 million or more, but less than $50 million, the minimum tax is $30,000.
(J) $50 million or more, but less than $75 million, the minimum tax is $50,000.
(K) $75 million or more, but less than $100 million, the minimum tax is $75,000.
(L) $100 million or more, the minimum tax is $100,000.

(b) If a corporation is an S corporation, the minimum tax is $150.

So what does this mean. As an example, let's say a medium sized business (not a small business like yours, which you are correct is not especially effected) does business in Oregon. But they are, in this market, making no margin or losing money currently.

Say it's a $25 million/year business. They now owe, this year, an extra $30,000 in taxes (since it's retroactive). Likely someone just lost their job in order to pay this in cash (since credit is limited and tight).

Under the current system, their taxable income would be $0 or negative and they would pay the minimum $10.

The problem is that it places an extra burden on low-margin businesses. Businesses that are very profitable, would likely not see any difference.

Making it retroactive, just pours salt in the wound.

I do agree that people on both sides of the argument have blown it way out of proportion. I generally think it's a bad thing, at least in these economic times. Will the state crumble, no, but it doesn't help anything.

And the tactics are despicable. "If you don't vote for this, we'll lose the funding for police and schools". It seems like I hear that every single year since I've moved here. Why not stop the Max? Or cut back on bike lane costs, and other non-critical services? Because that doesn't win votes.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

And all of that still adds up to only a 1.3% increase. The first increase since 1931 I might add. Plus you have to consider what the term "properly reported" sales means. Are you suggesting that businesses that make $25,000,000 in sales a year should pay $0 in taxes if they manage to shelter profits correctly?
I made way less than that last year I paid the state of oregon over $7,000 as an individual. Are you suggesting that $30,000 is unfair on a corporation with income of $25,000,000?

My tax liability last year ended up being approximately 20% (.20) of my gross income after all deductions. $30,000 is around one tenth of one percent (.0012) of their gross income. Does that sound unfair?

 

[NoAim]

And all of that still adds up to only a 1.3&#37; increase. The first increase since 1931 I might add. Plus you have to consider what the term "properly reported" sales means. Are you suggesting that businesses that make $25,000,000 in sales a year should pay $0 in taxes if they manage to shelter profits correctly?
I made way less than that last year I paid the state of oregon over $7,000 as an individual. Are you suggesting that $30,000 is unfair on a corporation with income of $25,000,000?

My tax liability last year ended up being approximately 20% (.20) of my gross income after all deductions. $30,000 is around one tenth of one percent (.0012) of their gross income. Does that sound unfair?

Sheltering profits is legal. If it is illegal, there's already a law against that. And if they are "sheltering", then why not address that aspect, rather than introducing something else. They did not.

Is $30,000 unfair for a corporation already in the throws of laying people off and in the red. And asking them to pay that retroactively when different decisions could be made. Yes.

And if you're having 20% tax on GROSS income that's a real problem. Most smaller businesses live on 10% margin alone. But, if you're successful, and your business grows, you'll pay more tax.

But, as I mentioned before, and you did not mention, my problem is not necessarily with the laws themselves, but rather the way they were presented with deceit and scare tactics (again).

And to add: By approving more money to the state, we get to see it spent just as badly. In order to cure the wasteful spending of our state governments and focus on core essentials, we should not give them more money.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Sheltering profits is legal. If it is illegal, there's already a law against that. And if they are "sheltering", then why not address that aspect, rather than introducing something else. They did not.

Is $30,000 unfair for a corporation already in the throws of laying people off and in the red. And asking them to pay that retroactively when different decisions could be made. Yes.

And if you're having 20% tax on GROSS income that's a real problem. Most smaller businesses live on 10% margin alone. But, if you're successful, and your business grows, you'll pay more tax.

But, as I mentioned before, and you did not mention, my problem is not necessarily with the laws themselves, but rather the way they were presented with deceit and scare tactics (again).

And to add: By approving more money to the state, we get to see it spent just as badly. In order to cure the wasteful spending of our state governments and focus on core essentials, we should not give them more money.

Actually, most means corporations use to shelter profits are not legal. They are simply not specifically illegal since loopholes are usually slipped into laws that skirt the intent of the law. There is a difference. Ever go to Hunduras and look at all the plaques on the wall of the local post office. These plaques are "headquarters" of many US Companies used to evade tax laws through "dummy" headquarters.

Name me an example of a corporation in Oregon with properly reported sales of $25,000,000 that is not making a profit of greater than one tenth of one percent. If you have sales that high and are making less than one tenth of one percent you are either already laying people off or you are working with a minimum workforce and will not be able to reduce numbers.

Show me a company with sales of more than $25,000,000 dollars that does not make a profit greater than one tenth of one percent and I will show you a shell company.

 

[gixxer1974]

So I have decided I don't wanna live within my budget any, more so Can we pass a vote to force my pay to increase? I mean if its good for the state then why not for me as well?

 

[NoAim]

Actually, most means corporations use to shelter profits are not legal. They are simply not specifically illegal since loopholes are usually slipped into laws that skirt the intent of the law. There is a difference. Ever go to Hunduras and look at all the plaques on the wall of the local post office. These plaques are "headquarters" of many US Companies used to evade tax laws through "dummy" headquarters.

Name me an example of a corporation in Oregon with properly reported sales of $25,000,000 that is not making a profit of greater than one tenth of one percent. If you have sales that high and are making less than one tenth of one percent you are either already laying people off or you are working with a minimum workforce and will not be able to reduce numbers.

Show me a company with sales of more than $25,000,000 dollars that does not make a profit greater than one tenth of one percent and I will show you a shell company.

Why would I try to go through all that effort to show you something you have no interest in seeing?

If you want to investigate it, do it yourself.

And for the 3rd time now....my problem is not necessarily with the law itself. You seem to keep wanting to argue something I don't really care about. Instead, there are other real problems that we have continued to neglect and have now postponed by passing these laws. Oregonians demonstrated that they are both fearful and gullible to the legislature. This will only continue the trend.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Why would I try to go through all that effort to show you something you have no interest in seeing?

If you want to investigate it, do it yourself.

And for the 3rd time now....my problem is not necessarily with the law itself. You seem to keep wanting to argue something I don't really care about. Instead, there are other real problems that we have continued to neglect and have now postponed by passing these laws. Oregonians demonstrated that they are both fearful and gullible to the legislature. This will only continue the trend.

I would have great interest in seeing it. I do not believe it exists. It is a white herring used by big corporations to get the little man to fight their fight without having to actual let them know what they are fighting for. It is propaganda to get people to vote against their own best interests.

 

[wou42]

The money has to come from somewhere. 40 percent of Oregonians don't pay ANY state income tax. The solution, make the hard working people who already pay huge amounts into the pot pay more. Of course this passed, it didn't affect 40&#37; of Oregonians at all (at least that is what they think).

Measure 66 would raise a net of $472 million, and Measure 67 an estimated $255 million, for the current two-year general-fund budget, which relies almost entirely on income taxes.

You can't tell me that it will only cost business an extra couple hundred dollars. Somebody has to pay for that $700 million dollars of increased taxes.

Playboy, your figures aren't adding up. $700 million in increased revenue from taxpayers is substantial.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The money has to come from somewhere. 40 percent of Oregonians don't pay ANY state income tax. The solution, make the hard working people who already pay huge amounts into the pot pay more. Of course this passed, it didn't affect 40% of Oregonians at all (at least that is what they think).

Measure 66 would raise a net of $472 million, and Measure 67 an estimated $255 million, for the current two-year general-fund budget, which relies almost entirely on income taxes.

You can't tell me that it will only cost business an extra couple hundred dollars. Somebody has to pay for that $700 million dollars of increased taxes.

Playboy, your figures aren't adding up. $700 million in increased revenue from taxpayers is substantial.

Did you bother to even look up home many different corporations exist in Oregon before doing your math? Or figure what percentage of these same businesses will be affected at what level? or did you just believe corporate mouth pieces on local conservative radio when they lied to you and told you that jobs would be lost and massive inflation will result?

 

[ob1]

I regret that you believe it is necessary raise taxes on those with the 'most discretionary income' to 'close the gap'. The fault is not theirs that government cannot control its spending, and feeding a junkie more junk is not going to halt their addiction.

This tax is going to drive more high wage earners out of the state, or stop them from moving here. This tax is going to drive more business out of the state, or stop them from starting here.

Who's business is it of anyone to decide that this or that person has 'too much discretionary income' and giving it up for non-producers to use and consume is 'responsible citizenship'.

I don't quite fall into the new tax bracket (I would if I was single), but I'm this close Galting out of the whole damn system.

Keith

+1 ..."Responsible Citizenship" ??? Poppycock !! That term would only apply if we were discussing the funding of responsible state spending. We are most definitely not. The tax and spend syndicate in this state ( teacher and public employee's unions) has learned that they can justify almost anything to our naive voter base by simply applying a "for our children" label on it or by using the tried and true Marxist angle, class envy. The only "discretionary income" in this state is already being squandered by irresponsible spending by the state.

What the "Responsible Citizens" of our state have just done is to further enable the tax and spend mega-junkie. As with any addict, the more you feed the addiction, the greater the demand becomes. The tax demands of our "junkie" will forever increase with more and more funding "emergencies" until we collectively gain the wisdom to employ "tough love" and just say "NO".

 

[terrylf72]

I had to stop watching this crap last night.. was just pissing me off everytime it scrolled by . I cant beleave the number of people that voted to pass these measures. Like they really think that any company will let a tex eat into thier profit. they will iether just raise the prices on thier popular items enought to cover the new tax or just add a couple more people to the unemployment line to cover it. Im sure like most of what I have read from the rest of you we all seam to agree these were bad measure to pass.

hmmm, how do I store floor long term... need more gun powder... oh sorry was writing my shopping list of things to get before the new taxs kick in...

 

[BillM]

The price of doing business just went up.

Companies will absorb some of it, but primarily the increased cost will
be passed on to the consumer. That's you and me--the "97% that will
pay nothing if these measures pass"

If the increased cost at the consumer level causes the company to lose
market share---

The company will move to someplace where the cost of doing business
is lower. Look at the current exodus from California to Nevada and points
east.

Gotta love it. "97% will pay nothing, but we are going to raise 400 million
a year" Find a minority---just 3% of the taxpayers----and hammer the
C%@P out of them.

Time to dig out Atlas Shrugged and do a little light reading.