measure 66-67 pass in Oregon

[komodo_dragon]

I didn't say you stated that... You show *me* where I said that you did.

Regardless, your original posting said it was "a mantra of the left". Since you left out "the right", or anyone else but the left, it was reasonable to point out to all that it's a mantra of *both*, regardless of what you personally think, since you only specified one particular group, choosing to exclude any others by your statement.

Thanks for admitting that I never said it was only the left.

 

[OcelotZ3]

I didn't have to admit anything, because you accused me of something I didn't even say.

What a tool... Useless to have a reasonable discussion with, that's for sure.

 

[komodo_dragon]

I didn't have to admit anything, because you accused me of something I didn't even say.

What a tool... Useless to have a reasonable discussion with, that's for sure.

So since my comment about "do as I say, not as I do" was in response to multiple postings from another member about how the left is so upstanding and the right is nothing but a bunch of liars, is it safe to assume that you will take it upon yourself to correct his claims as well? Or would it be too much to expect some consistency from you on that issue?

 

[slideglider]

Interesting post. Agree with part of your analysis. Two points, though:
The Federal Reserve was established in 1913, NOT as a response to the 1929 Crash.
Credit is the way money is brought into existence in our economy, so easy credit is the way for money to get concentrated into the hands of few people.
The gold standard seems attractive today, when our collective memory of how things actually were under the gold standard has faded. Read about the US populist movement of the 1870's-1890's. This was a rural movement, primarily in the US south and west. The farmers created their own economic agenda, based on local, community based credit institutions and cooperative marketing, purchasing, and mutual aid in labor. The so-called Red states of today were hotbeds of what we would today call left wing political action, although their ideas did not come from some European PHD, but from their own experiences under the Gold standard. Under gold, independent farmers had become massively in hock to the local private banks, and especially the merchants and buyers of farm products. One observer noted that 'the entire South was a giant pawn shop'. The reduction of a whole generation of independent producers into impoverished debtors created such a powerful protest movement that the corporate establishment barely hung on to power. One way they tried to co-opt the movement was to create the Federal Reserve, so that credit could be loosened - however without giving up any corporate control, or creating local-based institutions desiged by and for the producers.

Back to today. If we are talking solutions, I think the populists have alot to teach us. We need local community based control of the institutions that are necessary for modern life. Starting with municipal and public utilities whose mission would be distributed energy production and conservation. We need enough public land available to any person/family that wants to grow some of their own food. We need cheap, fast, quality housing divorced from real estate speculation. We need to make sure that public funds, especially pension funds, are re-invested locally, instead in the globalized ponzi scheme. We need to make sure that every one in our community has enough to eat. If we can do this, and we can, we can cut back on the top-down federal and state programs, reduce the size of government.
I totaly agree with you about the size of the military. It could be cut in half without threatening our security. We need to re-define national security to include energy conservation, and 'Resilient Communities' that can withstand oil shocks and natural disasters.

Your an advocate of social planning and social planning has proven again and again that it doesn't work. Socialism and Communism is a plague to the individual. You don't understand what money is. Credit is not money. It is debt. Which is saying, we have a credit based economy = we have a debt based economy. Fiat based systems only benefit the people that have first access to the money at the expense of everyone else.

We have never had a true gold backing in this country. A gold standard is not gold backing. There is most definitely no gold in Fort Knox. Why do you think the FED doesn't want an audit? Why do you think the vaults have never been audited? Not once! There has been inflation, coin clipping and other money debasement since this country was founded. The difference is, it wasn't until the FED was established that it was centralized. At least competing currencies keep things decentralized so the whole system doesn't go down. The FED's creation immediately stole from the people by Presidential decree. If it was so valuable to have those pieces of paper we wouldn't need legal tender laws.

I got out of wack on dates. The Panic of 1907 led to the creation of the FED officially. But JP Morgan and crew were very active behind the scenes in the earlier panics and recessions/depressions. The 1929 crash led to gold confiscation. And by that, you could say that the FED was established. It now had control of the money system by basically outlawing gold and competing monies.

 

[robctwo]

I get so tired of conservative pundits that dont take it far enough and say what really needs to be said about people. It has been years of living and working amongst you rats and seeing what you want to do to my country and control my life that spurred it. My fantasy of stuffing progressives into ovens is mine alone. Some of you locksteppers need to know how angry we are and that some of us want to dole out the ultimate punishment. Of course we wouldnt do it,

Really, of course you wouldn't do it? Put us in ovens? The Bin Ladens and Hitler youth must be delighted with your attitude. You wouldn't bomb a Federal Courthouse or fly a plane into an IRS office either, Right? If your brand of insanity is "conservative" we are all in trouble. Tea with that?

 

[bugeye]

Obviously you have kept repeating your lies long enough that you believe them. Good luck with the rest of your life. You're going to need it, since you have difficulty differentiating between truth and fantasy.

That is just what this discussion was about, since I'm urging everyone (left or right) to fact check the people who they get their news, or world view from, and part of programming is the 'repeating of lies long enough' I'd like nothing better than if you practiced what you preach toward others. I'd love to practice it more but there are limitations of time and politics isn't my day job, and I'd quit if it was.


"There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer."

 

[komodo_dragon]

I'd like nothing better than if you practiced what you preach toward others.

You should probably take care of that beam in your own eye, before being so concerned about the mote in someone else's eye.

 

[bugeye]

You should probably take care of that beam in your own eye, before being so concerned about the mote in someone else's eye.

I think the real question is who's eyes are we wearing at all? You can't avoid being brainwashed in this country, but at least you can make them work for it.

 

[Stomper]

Oh for cryin' out loud!! Give people credit for having at least SOME modicum of resonable intellect and stop your damned, "we're all hopelessly lost in the wilderness" blather... grow a pair, huh?

 

[bugeye]

Oh for cryin' out loud!! Give people credit for having at least SOME modicum of resonable intellect and stop your damned, "we're all hopelessly lost in the wilderness" blather... grow a pair, huh?

And you miss the point again, so what else is new.