Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[Xmark1]

I just took the safety course and purchase permit online. I have the certification & purchase permit in my hands. I just printed it out.
The cost was $60
I also donated $30 to OSSA
Total cost was $90. It is done.
I don't like it, but I do buy and sell firearms. Done.

I do have a CHL.

 

[br1sket]

In a TV interview one of the 114 principles said that dry fire was acceptable. True or not? None of them are experts and there has been a lot of untruth surrounding the selling of 114

It's irrelevant what someone on tv says, if the law enshrined on the books says "fire" then it means fire and nothing else.

 

[PiratePast40]

I know how to lock back and load a belt fed, but really excited about learning how to do so with a revolver.

 

[_Will_]

The weasel word that makes this correct is "demonstrate" so all you have to do is show them how it's done.

I do like how they use "lock, load at the beginning of the things you need to demonstrate. I'd love to see someone ask them what "lock" means, since the "lock and load" reference goes back to the late 1700's when firearms still had locks.

They will hem and haw and say it means to open the bolt, when the expression meant that the lock (ignition system) was ready to fire and the firearm was loaded. Lock really refers to the priming system used to ignite the charge.

But, then, they have all seen that John Wayne movie where he uses the term.

I've heard " lock n load" originated from the M1 Garand as you pull the OPROD charging bolt and load a Embloc clip in. I'm sure it originated before that even.

Btw, I would enjoy a demonstration by Mark Knutson. Maybe he should learn what Garand Thumb is?

 

[3MTA3]

Were you able to print or validate it since it's not supposed to be needed until Thursday 8th?

They are sending the cert via mail. I'd rather have gotten a pdf. Note this is just the non live training course and not the permit itself

 

[Xmark1]

They are sending the cert via mail. I'd rather have gotten a pdf. Note this is just the non live training course and not the permit itself

I have the pdf cert in my hands.

 

[akrox]

I'm surprised that "lock, load, and fire" isn't followed with "Get to da choppa"!

How about showing up to the training with a Hillary Holed S&W? "There, now that the action is locked I am physically prevented from loading and firing the firearm".

 

[3MTA3]

I've heard " lock n load" originated from the M1 Garand as you pull the OPROD charging bolt and load a Embloc clip in. I'm sure it originated before that even.

Btw, I would enjoy a demonstration by Mark Knutson. Maybe he should learn what Garand Thumb is?

lock and load - Wiktionary

en.wiktionary.org

"Attested since at least 1793, when a document describes flintlock weapons that are ready to fire as "well locked and loaded".[1]​ The variant "load(ed) and lock(ed)" is found since at least 1815.[2]​ The phrase may have originated from the use of gunlocks on naval artillery (in use by the Royal Navy since 1745); as gunlocks were not required for firing (a lintstock could be used) it may have been necessary to specify cannon was "locked" as well as loaded.

As an imperative, used since at least 1940, in the U.S. Army Field Manual for the M1 Rifle.[3]​ Compare e.g. German "laden und sichern" ("load and secure").[4]​ Popularized in culture after being used by John Wayne in Sands of Iwo Jima (1949)."

 

[curtissh]

I have the pdf cert in my hands.

Me too. My question is whether the county sheriffs will require new live fire training, or whether they'll take old course certificates from, say, the Oregon Firearms Academy or the Clackamas PSTC. Maybe they'll require an interview and have a gun with a dummy round. I called Marion County and they didn't have any answers.

 

[Nibbs]

AGAIN:

16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256:

The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be In agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:


The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it's enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.


Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it.....

A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.

No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

 

[Xmark1]

Me too. My question is whether the county sheriffs will require new live fire training, or whether they'll take old course certificates from, say, the Oregon Firearms Academy or the Clackamas PSTC. Maybe they'll require an interview and have a gun with a dummy round. I called Marion County and they didn't have any answers.

I have the same questions also.
I figure there might be a rush to get a permit, so I just did it.
Also, I think I'm currently grandfathered in. How can they make me do live training? I already have the permit?

 

[Xmark1]

I'm surprised that "lock, load, and fire" isn't followed with "Get to da choppa"!

How about showing up to the training with a Hillary Holed S&W? "There, now that the action is locked I am physically prevented from loading and firing the firearm".

They did address this issue during the training course.

 

[curtissh]

I have the same questions also.
I figure there might be a rush to get a permit, so I just did it.
Also, I think I'm currently grandfathered in. How can they make me do live training? I already have the permit?

We don't have a permit to purchase. We have a certificate evidencing we took the course. That certificate came from the Oregon State Sheriff's Association. We will have to apply for a permit by submitting an application "to the police chief or county sheriff with jurisdiction over the residence of the person making the application." And that will cost up to another $65. Plus whatever any "live fire" training costs, which we still do not have -- at least if they do not count prior live fire training certificates.

 

[nwslopoke]

I have the pdf cert in my hands.

View attachment 1325998

But for clarity, this in itself is nothing until there is some method of proving demonstration?

 

[pdxgti8v]

AGAIN:

16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256:

The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any statute, to be valid, must be In agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:


The General rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of it's enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.


Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it.....

A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the lend, it is superseded thereby.

No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

Tell that to all the people in Massachusetts who have to follow all their States "unconstitutional laws".....

 

[nammac]

I have the same questions also.
I figure there might be a rush to get a permit, so I just did it.
Also, I think I'm currently grandfathered in. How can they make me do live training? I already have the permit?

#PERMITLOOPHOLE

 

[CorvallisOr]

No one appears to be able to answer this....If this goes in to effect on Thursday, does this mean I cant go shoot my privately owned guns at the local public indoor shooting range until I get this stupid permit? Like, the range has to ask for the permit to allow you to shoot your own guns? Or is the permit just for buying and selling? This is the exact reeaosn this schit needs to be put on hold, everyone, including law enforcement, is just winging this schit....it simply shouldnt go in to effect (at all preferably) until the government has systems in place to create and enforce these BS permits....

No, permit is only required to purchase a gun.

 

[Xmark1]

We don't have a permit to purchase. We have a certificate evidencing we took the course. That certificate came from the Oregon State Sheriff's Association. We will have to apply for a permit by submitting an application "to the police chief or county sheriff with jurisdiction over the residence of the person making the application." And that will cost up to another $65. Plus whatever any "live fire" training costs, which we still do not have -- at least if they do not count prior live fire training certificates.

Oh Crap!

 

[ROTORYWING]

I have the same questions also.
I figure there might be a rush to get a permit, so I just did it.
Also, I think I'm currently grandfathered in. How can they make me do live training? I already have the permit?

The bottom of your permit says it only complies with the online portion

 

[Xmark1]

The bottom of your permit says it only complies with the online portion

This is F*****G ridiculous!