Meaning of "Well regulated"

[brianjronk]

So what's your opinion on what "well regulated militia" means. Now that militias aren't exactly as they were before, how does this translate to today?

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[Sling Blade]

There's an older thread where this subject got beat to death for weeks - I'll see if I can find it for you.

Edit: couldn't find it. IIRC, it seems the Supreme Court said that the part of the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, superceeded the first part about a well regulated militia.

Many posters chimed in, but that's what I got out of it.

 

[chariot13]

So what's your opinion on what "well regulated militia" means. Now that militias aren't exactly as they were before, how does this translate to today?

I believe it means 'a well armed militia that utilizes the tactics it takes to win'. Not stand in a line across from the enemy and walk at each other like a bunch of idiots, like the brits wanted. Standing toe to toe against a standing army that out numbers you was not the way we won.

 

[Sling Blade]

I believe it means 'a well armed militia that utilizes the tactics it takes to win'. Not stand in a line across from the enemy and walk at each other like a bunch of idiots, like the brits wanted. Standing toe to toe against a standing army that out numbers you was not the way we won.

Actually major battles of the Revolutionary War were fought in line formation and/or using siege techniques. The idea that Americans used other tactics gained popularity due to TV shows and movies. Just saying.

 

[gunnails]

I think it was pointed out that in the Oregon constitution, it requires all able body males between the ages of 18 and 45 to be defacto members of the mitlitia. So that makes me retired militia.
Well regulated referred to well trained and supplied.

The militia has morphed in to the National Guard.

 

[WolfTastesLikeChicken]

Actually major battles of the Revolutionary War were fought in line formation and/or using siege techniques. The idea that Americans used other tactics gained popularity due to TV shows and movies. Just saying.

In 1814 we took a little trip

 

[chariot13]

Actually major battles of the Revolutionary War were fought in line formation and/or using siege techniques. The idea that Americans used other tactics gained popularity due to TV shows and movies. Just saying.

I bellieve both methods happened and the standing toe to toe was not generally as successful for U.S. + the same people that allow something to be put in a history book as appearing factual are not who i believe as having our best interests but rather the interests of those in charge at the time.

 

[chariot13]

I think it was pointed out that in the Oregon constitution, it requires all able body males between the ages of 18 and 45 to be defacto members of the mitlitia. So that makes me retired militia.
Well regulated referred to well trained and supplied.

The militia has morphed in to the National Guard.

The National Guard doesn't qualify as a State Militia. Their intelligence unit is supplied & is overseen by the Federal Government, as well as their funding comes out of the Federal Government's budget not the States. Governors are nothing more than warlords who answer to a tyrant if & when they kill Americans.

 

[Sling Blade]

In 1814 we took a little trip

Wrong war.

 

[Sling Blade]

I bellieve both methods happened and the standing toe to toe was not generally as successful for U.S. + the same people that allow something to be put in a history book as appearing factual are not who i believe as having our best interests but rather the interests of those in charge at the time.

I totally agree. The Battle of Saratoga, for instance saw impressive use of what we'd refer to as unconveentional warfare, especially by Morgan and his men. Just am a little nervous that folks would get the idea that non of the Revolutionaries actions involved tactics common to the tim, hence my comments. I bow to your erudition, Sir.

 

[gunnails]

The National Guard doesn't qualify as a State Militia. Their intelligence unit is supplied & is overseen by the Federal Government, as well as their funding comes out of the Federal Government's budget not the States. Governors are nothing more than warlords who answer to a tyrant if & when they kill Americans.

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I won't argue that.

But you do agree I am retired militia?

 

[chariot13]

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I won't argue that.

But you do agree I am retired militia?

Reserve Militia lol not like i'd complain

 

[BSG 75]

Meaning of the words in the Second Amendment

Well Regulated

The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.

2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.

3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.

4) To put in good order.

[obsolete sense]

b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.

We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.

Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?

That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troops always ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
--- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))

The above quote is clearly not a request for a militia with the best set of regulations. (For brevity the entire passage is not shown and this quote should not be construed to imply Washington favored militias, in fact he thought little of them, as the full passage indicates.)

But Dr Sir I am Afraid it would blunt the keen edge they have at present which might be keept sharp for the Shawnese &c: I am convinced it would be Attended by considerable desertions. And perhaps raise a Spirit of Discontent not easily Queld amongst the best regulated troops, but much more so amongst men unused to the Yoak of Military Discipline.
--- Letter from Colonel William Fleming to Col. Adam Stephen, Oct 8, 1774, pp. 237-8. (Documentary History of Dunmore's War, 1774, Wisconsin historical society, pub. (1905))

And finally, a late-17th century comparison between the behavior of a large collection of seahorses and well-regulated soldiers:

One of the Seamen that had formerly made a Greenland Voyage for Whale-Fishing, told us that in that country he had seen very great Troops of those Sea-Horses ranging upon Land, sometimes three or four hundred in a Troop: Their great desire, he says, is to roost themselves on Land in the Warm Sun; and Whilst they sleep, they apppoint one to stand Centinel, and watch a certain time; and when that time's expir'd, another takes his place of Watching, and the first Centinel goes to sleep, &c. observing the strict Discipline, as a Body of Well-regulated Troops
--- (Letters written from New-England, A. D. 1686. P. 47, John Dutton (1867))

The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.

What about the Amendment's text itself? Considering the adjective "well" and the context of the militia clause, which is more likely to ensure the security of a free state, a militia governed by numerous laws (or the proper amount of regulation [depending on the meaning of "well"] ) or a well-disciplined and trained militia? This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

And finally, when regulated is used as an adjective, its meaning varies depending on the noun its modifying and of course the context. For example: well regulated liberty (properly controlled), regulated rifle (adjusted for accuracy), and regulated commerce (governed by regulations) all express a different meaning for regulated. This is by no means unusual, just as the word, bear, conveys a different meaning depending on the word it modifies: bearing arms, bearing fruit, or bearing gifts.

 

[gunnoob75]

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of people, trained in arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” –James Madison, I Annuals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789)

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” Richard Henry Lee, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights. Additional Letters From the Federal Farmer 53, 1788

“I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” –George Mason, during Virginia’s ratification convention, 1788

 

[Boomerang]

The "regulated" in "well regulated" means "disciplined", "trained", or "practiced".

 

[chariot13]

The "regulated" in "well regulated" means "disciplined", "trained", or "practiced".

I agree they meant it to mean well trained as much as well armed & Free, as well as the State that is, that wished to dictate The Peoples (Militia's) way of life.

 

[CharonPDX]

It means everyone with a gun is supplied with plenty of Metamucil.

Honestly, the "meaning" of well-regulated militia has been debated to death by experts so much, nobody can truly say they know what it means. Even some of the founding fathers had differing opinions. We've been living a "great compromise" with lawmakers disagreeing over the exact meanings of the words in the Constitution since day 1.

 

[Robo]

It actually means that a militia composed of folks carrying single shot muskets should be well regulated.

 

[chariot13]

It actually means that a militia composed of folks carrying single shot muskets should be well regulated.

Yep. All should be well regulated (well armed) beyond a single shot musket. Gatlin guns and cannons were permissable during the civil war for the common citizen for a reason. The 2nd ammendment.

 

[Boomerang]

It actually means that a militia composed of folks carrying single shot muskets should be well regulated.

Actually it says "arms". Doesn't specify which arms.