Me vs. Beaverton Police

[KomradRazvan]

So, because this guy has chosen to stand up for his rights more than once he some sort of extremist? I must be a bona fide freaking terrorist then. You belittle him as an attention monger because you do not have the courage to stand up for your rights? He is "just out to stir up trouble" in the community? Really..

Actually no. I didnt call him an extremist. I open carry a lot as well. As mentioned in other threads. I don't do it because i am afraid of printing so therefore i should just open carry, as Biggie has already stated in his posts, I do it because I believe if the public sees more and more people open carrying they will be more used to seeing guns, especially if it is someone who is just going about their everyday business and isn't causing any trouble while open carrying. I think that society has developed a media and brady bunch fueled phobia of guns, and they automatically think negatively of people with guns and no badge. Good examples of people open carrying and bringing a light to the issue is in a thread from quite a while ago where another member here talked about how he was open carrying and a woman and her child saw him, and asked him about it. He explained to them that it was his right, and that he felt a need to have protection with him, and they saw his point of view (or atleast pretended to). I have had encounters with the police over open carrying, and none of them went like this. But i did not have the same attitude as him. I've known this guy personally since 2007. I know what i'm talkin about here. The guy stated that he cannot wait to draw attention to himself when he wears a ski mask. Chances are he will be wearing one while open carrying. Is that not asking for trouble? Its legal to do both, but it falls under the Totality of the Circumstances.

A police officer cannot just come up and hassle you anytime they want to. They have to have a reason to ask you. If you are driving, you have provided them with a reason to ask for ID. Walking down the sidewalk? Nope, don't have to give them ID.

See there, you're automatically calling it hassling. But it isn't. A police officer CAN stop and say "hey, i would like to ask you a few questions, can you come here please?" You can legally respond with "NO, i'm busy right now, i have to go. Goodbye." and walk away, as the police officer has not detained you or read you your miranda rights or given you any indication that you are being detained or under arrest. Think of it this way: The cop sees a guy with a gun, heading for the plaid pantry, and they do nothing. A civilian sees that. The guy goes in there and shoots the clerk and a customer, steals the cash, and runs. Now, even though the cop was not legally obligated to stop and talk to the person, wouldn't it have been a good idea to do so anyways? What if that clerk or that customer was your wife, your son, your daughter, a parent, a friend, etc of yours and you find out that the cops were right there, and saw him heading to a plaid pantry with a gun and didn't do anything about it, not even stop and ask him a few questions, would you still feel the same way you feel now? Would you still say "the cop shouldn't have hassled him for exercising his right to open carry even though it would have probably saved my wife's (or whoever u want to put there) life." ? What do you think the civilian who witnessed it will say to the media? "I saw it happen. The cops were right there and they saw him walking with the gun on his hip and they did nothing."

The STATE does not issue anyone a CHL, the Sheriff of the county you live in does. This is a very good thing and everyone should think about it.

I didnt say CHL in my post. I said ID. And you should probably check into that a little more. Because CHL's are STATE ID'S that are issued THROUGH the COUNTY. That's because CHL issuance is governed by the ORS, which if you didn't know stands for OREGON Revised Statutes. The individual sheriff's office are just where you apply and recieve them from. Just like how if you live in salem you don't have to pass DEQ when registering your car, but in Portland you do! A vehicle registration is valid all over the state no matter where it was issued, just like a CHL. Another example would be a passport. You apply for it and fill out all the paper work and such at the postal office, does that mean it is the postal office who issues it to you? no. Trust me on this, i have a degree on the subject at hand.

 

[KomradRazvan]

very good, thanks for the info......... oh and BURN troll(s)!!!! hahahahah

You like info? Here's some that's useful, and ACCURATE! A CHL is an OREGON LICENSE not a COUNTY license. The responsible agency is the OREGON STATE POLICE. And to quote the OREGON.GOV website...

"Application for License to Carry Concealed Handgun (issued at the county Sheriff's Department)"

That says "AT" not "BY". Just pointing this out because people like coloneltim and you should be aware of what the law ACTUALLY says if you're going insist on having you're little "oh look at me, the police are trampling my rights" pitty party.

And here is how the ORS that governs the issuance of CHL's starts...

166.291 Issuance of concealed handgun license; application; fees; liability. (1) The sheriff of a county, upon a person's application for an Oregon concealed handgun license, upon receipt of the appropriate...

Oh, and biggie, here's the definition for troll:

Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you, either through wise-crackery, posting incorrect information, asking blatantly stupid questions, or other foolishness. However, trolling statements are never true or are ever meant to be construed as such. Nearly all trolled statements are meant to be funny to some people, so it does have some social/entertainment value.

"Trolling" isn't simply "harmful statements". Intentionally insulting/libelous statements are "flaming".

Just as bad as trolling is "Feeding the Trolls". This is when people say stuff that they know will prompt someone to respond with a trolled reply and/or replying to comments that are blatantly from a troll. This is especially true when a troll first makes his comment/reply, and (usually many) people respond, either trying to correct the troll, or express anger at the statement. At that point, the trolling was successful and has been fed.

 

[biggie24420]

1.) As far as ski masks and guns.... you would have to have a death wish if you open carry with a ski mask on your face unless you are uniform law enforcement or something. Someone who wears a ski mask will automatically draw attention, you can't assume that the person is "looking" for attention.... if it is cold outside and you have sinus issues that is one thing, but if it's summber time and you wear a mask, or you are in an environment such as inside a bank, police station,school property, or walking into a store with a mask on you are pretty much asking for it.

2.) A certain troll on here was actually contacted by police in the salem area and ordered to get out of his car and get on the ground at GUN POINT. This person was observed wearing a ski mask, full camo uniform while in position of a paint ball AK-47 (was observed walking in public with a realistic looking paint ball rifle before began driving) and listening to arabic music. This individual can't even purchase a firearm from a gun show or a gun store anymore, only face to face transactions.

--Guys lets provide our comments in a gown up manner, we don't need to hijack this thread..... Thanks.

 

[tkdguy]

So many of the replies on this thread have been spot on. The community standard is to carry concealed--that is the expections and "mores" of the Beaverton community. Regardless of the"legal right" one's own individual agenda to "project" personal issues, and unwanted social-legal challenges, is a disservice to the CHL community--and having the smarts to carry concealed should make one's street wise not to provoke a confrountation with the local police nor come to the attention of "watch commanders" nor other police managers nor administrations and establish a negative reputation in the community. We want the local police and their commanders to have a high opinion of the CHL's and not potentially bring these issues to the attention of the district attorney nor the "press" or to provide fuel to anti-gunners. I would think that this "incident" has now created it's own reputation throughout the Beaverton or Washington County police or sheriff's office that their staff's will be talking about or recalling as part of the history for some time.

FYI is would have been so much easier to have first approach the proper authority in the county police department to inquire what if any reaction would one expect if one was to: "open carry". And, then to respond accordingly. Open carry may be legal but I think it is "dumb" to have a confrountation with the police over this regardless of whether or not that are properly up on the law. Be smart, respectful, and do not engage in controversal conduct--that is the way to make progress and/or to ask questions from the highest police authority on the matter before hand. That way you get permission and know how to proceed. My comment may anger some of the posts but that is my opinion on the issue and this unfortunate event.

 

[Father of four]

So many of the replies on this thread have been spot on. The community standard is to carry concealed--that is the expections and "mores" of the Beaverton community. Regardless of the"legal right" one's own individual agenda to "project" personal issues, and unwanted social-legal challenges, is a disservice to the CHL community--and having the smarts to carry concealed should make one's street wise not to provoke a confrountation with the local police nor come to the attention of "watch commanders" nor other police managers nor administrations and establish a negative reputation in the community. We want the local police and their commanders to have a high opinion of the CHL's and not potentially bring these issues to the attention of the district attorney nor the "press" or to provide fuel to anti-gunners. I would think that this "incident" has now created it's own reputation throughout the Beaverton or Washington County police or sheriff's office that their staff's will be talking about or recalling as part of the history for some time.

FYI is would have been so much easier to have first approach the proper authority in the county police department to inquire what if any reaction would one expect if one was to: "open carry". And, then to respond accordingly. Open carry may be legal but I think it is "dumb" to have a confrountation with the police over this regardless of whether or not that are properly up on the law. Be smart, respectful, and do not engage in controversal conduct--that is the way to make progress and/or to ask questions from the highest police authority on the matter before hand. That way you get permission and know how to proceed. My comment may anger some of the posts but that is my opinion on the issue and this unfortunate event.

I think it would be in the best interest of the community if you refrain from making any more comments. As your above comment was to me controversial and made me feel uncomfortable. I would suggest that you speak with someone with the highest available authority before you speak to the public so you do not alarm anyone with your controversial comments. Thank you.

 

[mjbskwim]

So many of the replies on this thread have been spot on. The community standard is to carry concealed--that is the expectations and "mores" of the Beaverton community. Regardless of the"legal right" one's own individual agenda to "project" personal issues, and unwanted social-legal challenges, is a disservice to the CHL community--and having the smarts to carry concealed should make one's street wise not to provoke a confrontation with the local police nor come to the attention of "watch commanders" nor other police managers nor administrations and establish a negative reputation in the community. We want the local police and their commanders to have a high opinion of the CHL's and not potentially bring these issues to the attention of the district attorney nor the "press" or to provide fuel to anti-gunners. I would think that this "incident" has now created it's own reputation throughout the Beaverton or Washington County police or sheriff's office that their staff's will be talking about or recalling as part of the history for some time.

FYI is would have been so much easier to have first approach the proper authority in the county police department to inquire what if any reaction would one expect if one was to: "open carry". And, then to respond accordingly. Open carry may be legal but I think it is "dumb" to have a confrontation with the police over this regardless of whether or not that are properly up on the law. Be smart, respectful, and do not engage in controversial conduct--that is the way to make progress and/or to ask questions from the highest police authority on the matter before hand. That way you get permission and know how to proceed. My comment may anger some of the posts but that is my opinion on the issue and this unfortunate event.

I wish I could write like that.Kind of what I was attempting.
Well said.

I would expect that even the Open Carry guys notified someone when they went to Seattle,since the SPD called in officers from other jurisdictions to come stand guard too.

 

[mjbskwim]

But at least Biggie got all the attention he could want right here.

 

[KomradRazvan]

2.) A certain troll on here was actually contacted by police in the salem area and ordered to get out of his friend's car and get on the ground at GUN POINT. This person was These people were observed wearing a ski maskS, full camo uniform while in position i think you mean possession of a paint ball AK-47 (was observed walking in public with a realistic looking paint ball rifle before began driving) (you're misinformed)and listening to arabic music. This individual can't even purchase a firearm from a gun show or a gun store anymore, only face to face transactions. (Also misinformed and just plain flaming, unless you're referring to a strawman purchase you made... btw, also illegal)

There. Fixed it for you
And you're proving people's points. Just because you can legally do it, does not mean u should! The incident you're referring to was in 2008. Those two individuals have learned from that incident. You should do the same. Just because you can legally do something, does not mean you should. The same issue came up then, Totality of the Circumstance.

--Guys lets provide our comments in a gown up manner, we don't need to hijack this thread..... Thanks.

You're contradicting yourself within the same post.... that paintball thing you're talking about has nothing to do with you trying to take on the beaverton police, which is what this thread is about... hence the way you titled it.

So many of the replies on this thread have been spot on. The community standard is to carry concealed--that is the expections and "mores" of the Beaverton community. Regardless of the"legal right" one's own individual agenda to "project" personal issues, and unwanted social-legal challenges, is a disservice to the CHL community--and having the smarts to carry concealed should make one's street wise not to provoke a confrountation with the local police nor come to the attention of "watch commanders" nor other police managers nor administrations and establish a negative reputation in the community. We want the local police and their commanders to have a high opinion of the CHL's and not potentially bring these issues to the attention of the district attorney nor the "press" or to provide fuel to anti-gunners. I would think that this "incident" has now created it's own reputation throughout the Beaverton or Washington County police or sheriff's office that their staff's will be talking about or recalling as part of the history for some time.

FYI is would have been so much easier to have first approach the proper authority in the county police department to inquire what if any reaction would one expect if one was to: "open carry". And, then to respond accordingly. Open carry may be legal but I think it is "dumb" to have a confrountation with the police over this regardless of whether or not that are properly up on the law. Be smart, respectful, and do not engage in controversal conduct--that is the way to make progress and/or to ask questions from the highest police authority on the matter before hand. That way you get permission and know how to proceed. My comment may anger some of the posts but that is my opinion on the issue and this unfortunate event.

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. If you state that going by what the community sees fit is how it should be, then if the community wants to see the information of everyone who has a CHL then it should become public knowledge? NO! If you can legally open carry, do it. If the cops come up to you and ask you about it, don't be an argumentative a-hole to them and then cry to their sgt and then a public forum about it just because they didn't see it your way. I support open carry 100%. I don't support cry babies who made their bed and refuse to sleep in it.

But at least Biggie got all the attention he could want right here.

 

[biggie24420]

But at least Biggie got all the attention he could want right here.

Trust me bud, it's not that I am looking for attention on here...... I am just trying to find out what most of you think, what your experiences have been.

 

[Father of four]

I believe it is as simple as you had stated.

"If you can legally open carry, do it. If the cops come up to you and ask you about it, don't be an argumentative a-hole to them ..." Thank you KomradRazvan.

 

[biggie24420]

There. Fixed it for you
And you're proving people's points. Just because you can legally do it, does not mean u should! The incident you're referring to was in 2008. Those two individuals have learned from that incident. You should do the same. Just because you can legally do something, does not mean you should. The same issue came up then, Totality of the Circumstance.



You're contradicting yourself within the same post.... that paintball thing you're talking about has nothing to do with you trying to take on the beaverton police, which is what this thread is about... hence the way you titled it.



I am going to have to disagree with you on this. If you state that going by what the community sees fit is how it should be, then if the community wants to see the information of everyone who has a CHL then it should become public knowledge? NO! If you can legally open carry, do it. If the cops come up to you and ask you about it, don't be an argumentative a-hole to them and then cry to their sgt and then a public forum about it just because they didn't see it your way. I support open carry 100%. I don't support cry babies who made their bed and refuse to sleep in it.

It is clear that you have some growing up to do and that your looking for attention, but if your intentions are to mess up this thread....... well we would hope that you could move on and find somewhere where you are welcome.

 

[KomradRazvan]

I believe it is as simple as you had stated.

"If you can legally open carry, do it. If the cops come up to you and ask you about it, don't be an argumentative a-hole to them ..." Thank you KomradRazvan.

You're welcome.

It is clear that you have some growing up to do and that your looking for attention, but if your intentions are to mess up this thread....... well we would hope that you could move on and find somewhere where you are welcome.

Go back and read the past 6 pages of this thread. I came in on page 5 and said what I think of the situation, as you so requested...

Trust me bud, it's not that I am looking for attention on here...... I am just trying to find out what most of you think, what your experiences have been.

There are 97 other posts before mine (some not as nice). Then I corrected those who had posted the wrong information here.

I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt because not all of us agree with you, but trust me, that is not trolling nor hijacking nor "messing up a thread" or anything else you might whine about it being. It is just simply providing you, and everyone else, my opinion and some useful info. I am sure that it isn't just me, but others on here who thank you for giving us a prime example of what NOT to do when being questioned about open carrying.

 

[biggie24420]

You're welcome.



Go back and read the past 6 pages of this thread. I came in on page 5 and said what I think of the situation, as you so requested...


There are 97 other posts before mine (some not as nice). Then I corrected those who had posted the wrong information here.

I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt because not all of us agree with you, but trust me, that is not trolling nor hijacking nor "messing up a thread" or anything else you might whine about it being. It is just simply providing you, and everyone else, my opinion and some useful info. I am sure that it isn't just me, but others on here who thank you for giving us a prime example of what NOT to do when being questioned about open carrying.

my feelings were hurt? ok if you say so... please keep posting more helpful comments.....

 

[coloneltim]

I think it would be in the best interest of the community if you refrain from making any more comments. As your above comment was to me controversial and made me feel uncomfortable. I would suggest that you speak with someone with the highest available authority before you speak to the public so you do not alarm anyone with your controversial comments. Thank you.

Could NOT have said it any better!!!

Kudos!

 

[biggie24420]

Could NOT have said it any better!!!

Kudos!

agreed .........and I must say that it's nice that the troll(s) stopped for now ......... ahhhhh lol so nice.

 

[mjbskwim]

agreed .........and I must say that it's nice that the troll(s) stopped for now ......... ahhhhh lol so nice.

my feelings were hurt? ok if you say so... please keep posting more helpful comments.....
biggie24420

OK this is why I can't have any respect for you or any thing you have had to say.This is the kind of responses that are on a MMA forum from the kids posting from their mom's basement.
Adults don't refer to other adults as trolls in and adult forum.They come up with other means of countering what was said.

I'm for open carry..... as long as it isn't going to bring the cops out,scare all the locals and put more pressure on our battle to keep guns legal.So in other words,I am for carrying in areas where it is a normal thing to see.That way when the city folk come out,they get used to it there.
And again,if TS didn't have a Oregon CCP CHL,whatever,he had no grounds to start anything with the Beaverton police.
BTW Why would you start a post,you against the police unless you had that in mind when you were starting all this?

I guess I'm seeing it this way cause it sounds just like a kid I know trying to sue the WSP for harassment for something like this HE started.
I hurt his feeling too.

 

[KomradRazvan]

I guess I'm seeing it this way cause it sounds just like a kid I know trying to sue the WSP for harassment for something like this HE started.
I hurt his feeling too.

Amen. It's like talking to a 14 year old who thinks they know everything. Nothing is going to get through. Everytime someone gives an opinion that he doesn't like, he has to have a come-back. This thread is just a facade of wanting opinions, what he really wants is a point of release to whine and complain and have a pitty party that BPD is targetting him, and is seeking some sort of third party validation that what he did is right since there is a lack of self confidence to stand by his own choices.

Biggie, if you believe what you did was right, and that the police are at fault, there is nothing anyone can do to make you realize otherwise. So WHEN you do get your CHL taken away, even though no one may say it, just know that we will all be thinking "I told you so."

As to everyone else, lets just let the thread die and not give it anymore of our time. It's just not worth it.

 

[Sniper]

Amen. It's like talking to a 14 year old who thinks they know everything. Nothing is going to get through. Everytime someone gives an opinion that he doesn't like, he has to have a come-back. This thread is just a facade of wanting opinions, what he really wants is a point of release to whine and complain and have a pitty party that BPD is targetting him, and is seeking some sort of third party validation that what he did is right since there is a lack of self confidence to stand by his own choices.

Biggie, if you believe what you did was right, and that the police are at fault, there is nothing anyone can do to make you realize otherwise. So WHEN you do get your CHL taken away, even though no one may say it, just know that we will all be thinking "I told you so."

As to everyone else, lets just let the thread die and not give it anymore of our time. It's just not worth it.

I agree, Ive been sitting back looking at this thing from the "far, big picture". It seems like 80% of the people on here are all on the same page. Where I'm at, there are people that do the same thing. Trying to get attention. Its a shame but eventually those people will FADE away....Unless you are trying to make a point about OCing, I would much rather have the person not even know that i have a weapon or give my location away. You all have a good night. "BMONT"... I'll talk to you later brother. -SFF 1S1K-

 

[R-Rizzo]

Dear Lord, I can't believe this thread is still on-going.... #ThatIsAll

 

[biggie24420]

Dear Lord, I can't believe this thread is still on-going.... #ThatIsAll

I'll be honest man, if a certain troll or trolls didn't come in here and mess up my thread it be cool. My intentions were to have this be a learning experience and show that we have rights. But we have a few immature people on here who have nothing better to do and something to prove.... they act like their s**t don't smell. People make assumptions when they don't even know me but that is expected from forums I guess..... very sad.