Me vs. Beaverton Police

[gunjunky]

You have the right to open carry! People should exercise their rights given the opportunity. However, I agree with some here that you created this situation to gain attention. The fact that you recorded a conversation and posted it in a public forum lends credence to this observation. As does the comment you made to the clerk; you created the situation and expected the result. Good work.
If you do not want contact with law enforcement then don’t do things to draw attention to yourself.
I personally think open carry is a bad idea simply because it makes you the first target. If I intend to do bad deeds then the first person I would target would be the one with the gun. So under that line of logic concealing the gun until you need it is a good idea. Or you could just walk around with your pistol, as is your right, and continue to gain attention from law enforcement. But the next time you are in the stop and rob getting your smokes and the bad guy planning to rob the place watches you lumber in strapped with your pride and joy; he will simply shoot you in the back of the head, rob the store for the needed cash to obtain his fix and take your gun for his next adventure prior to leaving. Perhaps this is farfetched, and your presence will simply stop the robbery and you will have served the public without ever knowing it. It’s your life and you should have the right to do as you choose, often natural selection does happen.

 

[RobertJ.]

You have the right to open carry! People should exercise their rights given the opportunity. However, I agree with some here that you created this situation to gain attention. The fact that you recorded a conversation and posted it in a public forum lends credence to this observation. As does the comment you made to the clerk; you created the situation and expected the result. Good work.
If you do not want contact with law enforcement then don’t do things to draw attention to yourself.
I personally think open carry is a bad idea simply because it makes you the first target. If I intend to do bad deeds then the first person I would target would be the one with the gun. So under that line of logic concealing the gun until you need it is a good idea. Or you could just walk around with your pistol, as is your right, and continue to gain attention from law enforcement. But the next time you are in the stop and rob getting your smokes and the bad guy planning to rob the place watches you lumber in strapped with your pride and joy; he will simply shoot you in the back of the head, rob the store for the needed cash to obtain his fix and take your gun for his next adventure prior to leaving. Perhaps this is farfetched, and your presence will simply stop the robbery and you will have served the public without ever knowing it. It’s your life and you should have the right to do as you choose, often natural selection does happen.

Wow, not bad!

I've been watching this for days now, even though I've told myself I'm done with it, I just wanted to see what kind of idiotic post would come next.

This post sums up what I've thought all along.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Biggie24420, I think you were totally in the right.

 

[Karma]

Unless I am going hunting,I don't see any need to open carry when I know it will upset people.

So because you don't see any need to open carry, someone else is in the wrong for exercising that right? I carry concealed most of the time for my own reasons, but if I choose to open carry for any reason, I damn sure am going to exercise my RIGHT to do so. It is a personal choice, and not one that I need to run through the self appointed experts on firearms etiquette.

When 1 person does these kinds of things,or even when the open carry group does it,it doesn't do any good for the rest of us in the gun community.It makes us all look like wanna be tough guys.
Which is what I'm assuming you are.
Why create controversy and risk having some nervous cop kill you? Or worse,he shoots like most of them and kills some kid behind you?

Do you not believe in the right to assemble in peaceful protest either? Protests can be held on race, abortion, religion, and other things that top the list of controversial topics. One of the RIGHTS that the founders that was important enough to put into writing, was the right to protest no matter the topic. Why do we all of the sudden have to hide our freedom and worry about controversy when it comes to our RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS?

Also, because someone open carries, you jump to the conclusion that he is a wanna be tough guy? lol. Why? Because he exercises his right? I would submit that many more people who use freedom of speech are wanna be tough guys. Carrying a gun doesn't make anyone tough. A gun is simply a tool. I can use my knife to kill someone, very efficiently I might add. Does that mean I am a wanna be tough guy because I carry a pocketknife?

Are you just trying to make trouble? Do you not know when to open carry and when to NOT?
It's fine to make a point,but for the most part it sounds (with the question about recording) that you were there to push your ideals.

Do you know when to open carry and when not to? Please, lay out your thoughts about the issue. You must be the last word in when it is o.k. to open carry and when it is not the right time and place. Here I thought everyone made their own decisions in a free country.

If he is trying to push his ideals, so what? Again, isn't that what a protest is? He did absolutely nothing wrong legally, morally, or otherwise. The only thing I have heard is that some of you are worried that he might offend or scare someone.

I guess I am not really so worried about being PC. I think society as a whole has suffered hugely from this PC movement. Another thing I might add is that it generally isn't the guy walking around with a holster on his hip that you need to worry about. Criminals generally conceal their intentions, because, well, they are doing something illegal!

The responses from "biggie24420",and his cute little handle make me feel even more he shouldn't even own a gun.Kind of junior high type responses.
You should just start them all with "Yeah but",like my grand kid does.

These types of confrontations will never do the gun community,AS A WHOLE, any good.I don't care what any of the organizations think.Open carry just scares people,it doesn't make you look like you are exercising any right to the public.
Or me either.I hate being around other people with guns,
I don't know .And you sir would be one of the last I would care to be around.

Ahhh. Now, you feel that he shouldn't own a gun. Is that because he has violent tendencies? Is he mentally unstable? I would really like to hear your professional thoughts on this also. I am assuming of course that you are well qualified to diagnose his competency to own a firearm, especially from a couple of posts on a internet forum.

Another gun owner who isn't comfortable with gun ownership for others. That is great. This is the type of crap I expect from the elite in government, not a fellow gun owner.

 

[Stomper]

zing!!! :d

 

[biggie24420]

STNOSU...... ZA_Survivalist....... gunjunky.....Karma, Thank you all. I appreciate your comments and support.... as I do with most other comments etc.

 

[56kninja]

I just wonder... What # Contact is this with the police regarding walking around with a gun?

I think you are earning a reputation Biggie, but are you are in the right in this instance.

I don't agree with OC as a political statement, as a gun is not a political tool. But the right remains, and I wouldn't change that ever.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Documents, notes, drafts and recordings are subject to public disclosure when created by a public agency.

If you don't think we don't shell out MILLIONS in settlements every year due to the perception that we didn't do our job when people exercise their free will to do stupid things, you're dead wrong. MILLIONS.

This is a fact. Dispatchers MUST forward ALL 911 calls to the apropriate agency, LE, Medic, Fire. It is the agency that makes the decision to respond or not. Dispatchers cannot make that decision. They would be instantly reprimanded or fired for not forwarding any 911 call. The liability is far too great for them not to.

 

[biggie24420]

I just wonder... What # Contact is this with the police regarding walking around with a gun?

I think you are earning a reputation Biggie, but are you are in the right in this instance.

I don't agree with OC as a political statement, as a gun is not a political tool. But the right remains, and I wouldn't change that ever.

1.) As far as calling a number to let them know your open carrying? I thought about contacting the none-emergency dispatch to give them a friendly heads up, let them know who I am, what I plan on doing, what I am wearing..... but I guess that doesn't really do anything...... I think that would be a good idea tho.

2.) As far as me making a political stand.... I am just trying to exercise my right to open carry. The State issued Washington Co. license exempts me from any city and county laws that may not allow me to open carry, I as a proud American with rights decided to exercise my right to open carry. If it was such a big deal they should have made it that even with a license you are not allowed to open carry. As far as public being "alarmed".... I can understand that but the public also needs to know a bad guy doesn't just open carry and that not everyone with a gun is a "bad guy". Just like it is up to me to know the laws, they need to know the laws too. The Beaverton Police took the time and went the extra mile to contact the county to "turn me in" when in my opinion they should have gone the extra mile and called the concerned citizen and notified him/her that I, BIGGIE24420 had a CHL and was within his legal rights to do what he was doing. Thanks

 

[HahnsXD]

Ahhh read his OP,he says he has a WA CCP,which as I said,isn't valid in Oregon.

You do realize Washington County and Washington State are two different things, right?

Carry your gun however you wish, this isn't the place to criticize others for how they choose to exercise their rights.

 

[soberups]

I support your right to open carry the same way I support your right to wear a pink thong and a Mohawk.

You have the absolute right to do both, but you dont have the right to get offended when people notice and respond.

 

[i8asquirrel]

Concealed means Concealed......I feel that in our community of sheeple open carry walking down the street is just sturring crap for no reason.....kind of kicking a beehive, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[coloneltim]

I sound like a dumb ***? You sound like a kid that didn't get enough attention .
Unless I am going hunting,I don't see any need to open carry when I know it will upset people.
Now had you done that in Seattle,Ca,I mean Wa (it's run by Californians I think),the swat teem would have had you in jail.
If I did that in Port Angeles,nobody would care.
When 1 person does these kinds of things,or even when the open carry group does it,it doesn't do any good for the rest of us in the gun community.It makes us all look like wanna be tough guys.
Which is what I'm assuming you are.
Why create controversy and risk having some nervous cop kill you? Or worse,he shoots like most of them and kills some kid behind you?

HahnsXD
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbskwim View Post
OK I didn't read the whole post.Didn't need to.I have heard this story from attention getters before.
You make everything harder for the rest of us.The CCP makes know difference if you are open carying,if you didn't know this,and by your statements that was obvious,you shouldn't be able to have a concealed permit.

LEARN THE LAWS. And WA States CCP is not valid in Oregon.

Are you just trying to make trouble? Do you not know when to open carry and when to NOT?
It's fine to make a point,but for the most part it sounds (with the question about recording) that you were there to push your ideals.

This never does us any good.People get tired of it and all it does is cause further problems.



Ahhh read his OP,he says he has a WA CCP,which as I said,isn't valid in Oregon.

The responses from "biggie24420",and his cute little handle make me feel even more he shouldn't even own a gun.Kind of junior high type responses.
You should just start them all with "Yeah but",like my grand kid does.

These types of confrontations will never do the gun community,AS A WHOLE, any good.I don't care what any of the organizations think.Open carry just scares people,it doesn't make you look like you are exercising any right to the public.
Or me either.I hate being around other people with guns,
I don't know .And you sir would be one of the last I would care to be around.

This guy has to be a COP TROLL!

 

[uscsoldier]

I support your right to open carry the same way I support your right to wear a pink thong and a Mohawk.

You have the absolute right to do both, but you dont have the right to get offended when people notice and respond.

very well said

 

[RobertJ.]

This thread was bound to become a CC vs. OC debate.

Everyone contributing to this thread already has their mind made up, and nobody is going to change the mind of anyone.

OC is a right. Exercise it if you wish.

Myself, I don't want the bad guys to know that I have a gun. If a thug forces me to show my .357, I want it to be a complete surprise to him.

The reason I'm carrying is protection of my wife and myself. I have no other agenda.

 

[Murphy]

IIRC Biggie also had a confrontation with Beaverton PD in the Kmart parking lot last year.

I will state the same comment I made in last years post again, you are going to become someones project and are not going to like the consequences.

 

[KomradRazvan]

ok wow. I just spent the last hour going over this and preparing a reply... so here goes.

I listened to both videos. My impression was that 1) the situation was obviously tense in your voice and descriptions with the offiers, 2) I think you were pressing the limits of their tollerance and politeness, and 3) your conversation with the sargent in the second call was slightly challenging to him--and he appeared to be loosing his tollerance with you. Overall, I think that they handeled the matter very well when you consider what the sargent had to say in the second video. REMEMBER TODAY'S POLICE ARE WIRED TIGHT BECAUSE OFALL THE CRAP THEY HAVE TO DO. SO, WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER POLICE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO BE SOFT SPOKEN AND POLITE AND SEEK OUT INFORMATON THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE YOU.

Remember the walk away: when they leave you they will have an attitude toward's the next open carry chl. YOU ARE AN AMBASSADOR OF OPEN OR CHL CARRYING GOOD WILL.

+ The Population of China

I WILL open carry again in the future but I think it is wrong for someone to assume that just because I open carry that I make them look bad........ how?

It's not the fact that you're open carrying that makes us look bad, its the attitude you're having towards the cops. Like you're being persecuted or something and you’re on some crusade to educate them. Like everyone has said, if you choose to open carry, expect to have people call it in, and have the cops respond and talk to you. YOU say you're mad that they wouldn't leave you alone... but did you try to walk away? nope. Because you like the attention and are looking for an excuse to prove a cop wrong on something. So you stood there and continued to engage them in a conversation, that left both parties annoyed. Then you call up their Sgt and start complaining to him... Would you like some cheese with your whine? Now think of it from our point of view. The next time these officers encounter someone with a concealed carry permit or open carrying, this incident is going to come to mind, and they will automatically have a negative attitude towards whomever they are contacting. I remember last year during the zombie walk, when u and I and another person were in our Umbrella Corp uniforms and open carrying. You should have just dealt with it the same way we did that time. Tell them you have to get going, and you don't have time to talk, unless you're being detained or under arrest. It's worked before, trust me, it will work again.

I am legally able to and it's my right to do so.

Legally you can go eat dog turds off the sidewalk, and it's your right to do so. In fact, it helps the community out so that no one steps in it. Do you go doing that? Nope. So just because you can legally do it, does not make it a smart idea. I support you open carrying. I open carry all the time as well. But I don’t have the same attitude you have towards cops. I can’t even count how many time’s i've seen you flip cops off or say something derogatory just from seeing one. You just hate cops.

Some of you say that I sounded challenging, and that I pressed the officers too much or whatever...... do you think I am gonna stand there and just take it? NO!!!! I was polite to the officers and I stood my ground and when Officer Carino saw that I was not buying his BS, he got annoyed with me and started making comments about how my license could get revoked (that is threat in my book). So I stayed calm and respectful and obtained their information and I requested to have a SGT contact me through none emergency dispatch after the officers were done with me.

For someone who claims to know so much about the law over Law Enforcement Officers, how did you not know this and had to call another LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER to find out? Why didn't you go to a lawyer? Would’ve made more sense if cops "don't know the as much as you." Or actually having gone and asked at the sheriff's office. That would’ve been another good idea. But it looks to me like you're just out trying to cause problems, and because you couldn't get your point across to the responding officer you felt the need to call their Sgt and cry about it.

I knew better, I made the mistake of talking to police when I should have just showed them ID, stayed quiet and when they were done checking me.... I should have asked if I was free to go and just grabbed my ID and walked away. Next time that is what I am going to do..... If I was allowed to video tape this whole thing, you guys would see how Officer Carino was messing with me, how he LIED to his SGT about not saying anything to me about county being able to revoke my license..... Carino DID make comments about how county could be contacted and how my license could have been in jeopardy.

You guys see that river? He's crying it for us. But seriously now, I hope that you learned from THIS experience, and will act accordingly in the future. You exercised you're right. Good job! But next time, don't get all high and mighty with the cops about it. Just say "thanks for the tip" and go on your way. It is not your job to educate them.

As far as multiple calls go, they already made contact with me, they know who I am and what I look like so when more people call in, dispatch can ask for my description and relay that to the officers and if they need to still respond to the call they can drive by me and find out that I am the same guy they stopped a while ago and they don't have to even get out of their car to waste my time or their time. Dispatch can also tell the concerned citizen that BILLY BOB has a license and the RIGHT to be open carrying.

FYI - There are more than just 4 officers on duty at all times... Not all of them will know that you are the one they stopped. Unless you're over 8 foot with green glowing skin, I’m sure that there are many people who can fit your description.

I can't wait for when it gets cold and I have to wear a ski mask to keep my face warm (and NO I would not be open carrying with a mask lol)....... will the police stop me and make me move my ski mask because I am ALARMING THE PUBLIC? I have sinus issues and I have to keep my face warm or I get an infection and i'm down for two weeks. Are they gonna pass a city ordinance that says NO SKI MASKS? It is my actions that should be considered not what I have on (to a point)...... If I am walking down the street or standing at the bus stop there should be no problems and again I have no problem if I get stopped by police but I don't need to be treated like a criminal and intimidated by police....... If I am lurking behind a dumpster hiding.... yeah that is suspicious and that would be a problem.

Dude... you are so antagonistic, as others have said. You sound like you are just out looking for trouble.

Hahahaha yeah like you have room to talk HJ......

HAHAHAHA... nope. Not who you think it is. Guess again.

1.) As far as calling a number to let them know your open carrying? I thought about contacting the none-emergency dispatch to give them a friendly heads up, let them know who I am, what I plan on doing, what I am wearing..... but I guess that doesn't really do anything...... I think that would be a good idea tho.

I am pretty sure that he meant the number of times you have had contact with the police about it, not an actual phone number.

You have the right to open carry! People should exercise their rights given the opportunity. However, I agree with some here that you created this situation to gain attention. The fact that you recorded a conversation and posted it in a public forum lends credence to this observation. As does the comment you made to the clerk; you created the situation and expected the result.

I agree. 100%

It’s your life and you should have the right to do as you choose, often natural selection does happen.

In this case, we can only hope.

IIRC Biggie also had a confrontation with Beaverton PD in the Kmart parking lot last year.

Yep. Same guy. And same thing happened, he quoted them law, and then he got on here and posted about it. Same guy who posted about being "off duty" and drawing a gun and badge at someone who was stealing beer from a safeway. This guy is just out to stir trouble in the community, and it IS going to make others look bad. If the cops actually did go out of their way and contact the county is because they saw in the records that this isn't the first, the second, or the 13th time they have had this issue with him, so they figured better just stop it from happening again, and contacted the sheriff's office and see if there is anything they can do about it. As i've said, it is not an issue of open carrying or not, it is an issue of attitude. People like this just love attention, that's all. They'll do whatever to get it.

And to those of you who agree that the police were “hassling” him, you do realize that a police officer can come and talk to you anytime they want, and they can ask for your ID anytime they want? Oh, and just so you know, they don't have to return it. It is not YOURS, it is the state's, as they are the ones who issued it, and you are just renting it from them. So as you may be ok to walk away, you cannot just grab it back from an officer and leave. Same goes with license plates.

 

[biggie24420]

ok wow. I just spent the last hour going over this and preparing a reply... so here goes.



+ The Population of China




It's not the fact that you're open carrying that makes us look bad, its the attitude you're having towards the cops. Like you're being persecuted or something and you’re on some crusade to educate them. Like everyone has said, if you choose to open carry, expect to have people call it in, and have the cops respond and talk to you. YOU say you're mad that they wouldn't leave you alone... but did you try to walk away? nope. Because you like the attention and are looking for an excuse to prove a cop wrong on something. So you stood there and continued to engage them in a conversation, that left both parties annoyed. Then you call up their Sgt and start complaining to him... Would you like some cheese with your whine? Now think of it from our point of view. The next time these officers encounter someone with a concealed carry permit or open carrying, this incident is going to come to mind, and they will automatically have a negative attitude towards whomever they are contacting. I remember last year during the zombie walk, when u and I and another person were in our Umbrella Corp uniforms and open carrying. You should have just dealt with it the same way we did that time. Tell them you have to get going, and you don't have time to talk, unless you're being detained or under arrest. It's worked before, trust me, it will work again.



Legally you can go eat dog turds off the sidewalk, and it's your right to do so. In fact, it helps the community out so that no one steps in it. Do you go doing that? Nope. So just because you can legally do it, does not make it a smart idea. I support you open carrying. I open carry all the time as well. But I don’t have the same attitude you have towards cops. I can’t even count how many time’s i've seen you flip cops off or say something derogatory just from seeing one. You just hate cops.




For someone who claims to know so much about the law over Law Enforcement Officers, how did you not know this and had to call another LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER to find out? Why didn't you go to a lawyer? Would’ve made more sense if cops "don't know the as much as you." Or actually having gone and asked at the sheriff's office. That would’ve been another good idea. But it looks to me like you're just out trying to cause problems, and because you couldn't get your point across to the responding officer you felt the need to call their Sgt and cry about it.




You guys see that river? He's crying it for us. But seriously now, I hope that you learned from THIS experience, and will act accordingly in the future. You exercised you're right. Good job! But next time, don't get all high and mighty with the cops about it. Just say "thanks for the tip" and go on your way. It is not your job to educate them.



FYI - There are more than just 4 officers on duty at all times... Not all of them will know that you are the one they stopped. Unless you're over 8 foot with green glowing skin, I’m sure that there are many people who can fit your description.



Dude... you are so antagonistic, as others have said. You sound like you are just out looking for trouble.



HAHAHAHA... nope. Not who you think it is. Guess again.



I am pretty sure that he meant the number of times you have had contact with the police about it, not an actual phone number.



I agree. 100%



In this case, we can only hope.



Yep. Same guy. And same thing happened, he quoted them law, and then he got on here and posted about it. Same guy who posted about being "off duty" and drawing a gun and badge at someone who was stealing beer from a safeway. This guy is just out to stir trouble in the community, and it IS going to make others look bad. If the cops actually did go out of their way and contact the county is because they saw in the records that this isn't the first, the second, or the 13th time they have had this issue with him, so they figured better just stop it from happening again, and contacted the sheriff's office and see if there is anything they can do about it. As i've said, it is not an issue of open carrying or not, it is an issue of attitude. People like this just love attention, that's all. They'll do whatever to get it.

And to those of you who agree that the police were “hassling” him, you do realize that a police officer can come and talk to you anytime they want, and they can ask for your ID anytime they want? Oh, and just so you know, they don't have to return it. It is not YOURS, it is the state's, as they are the ones who issued it, and you are just renting it from them. So as you may be ok to walk away, you cannot just grab it back from an officer and leave. Same goes with license plates.

AWWWWW how cute ....... glad you could participate in this thread.

 

[coloneltim]

Yep. Same guy. And same thing happened, he quoted them law, and then he got on here and posted about it. Same guy who posted about being "off duty" and drawing a gun and badge at someone who was stealing beer from a safeway. This guy is just out to stir trouble in the community, and it IS going to make others look bad. If the cops actually did go out of their way and contact the county is because they saw in the records that this isn't the first, the second, or the 13th time they have had this issue with him, so they figured better just stop it from happening again, and contacted the sheriff's office and see if there is anything they can do about it. As i've said, it is not an issue of open carrying or not, it is an issue of attitude. People like this just love attention, that's all. They'll do whatever to get it.

And to those of you who agree that the police were “hassling” him, you do realize that a police officer can come and talk to you anytime they want, and they can ask for your ID anytime they want? Oh, and just so you know, they don't have to return it. It is not YOURS, it is the state's, as they are the ones who issued it, and you are just renting it from them. So as you may be ok to walk away, you cannot just grab it back from an officer and leave. Same goes with license plates.

So, because this guy has chosen to stand up for his rights more than once he some sort of extremist? I must be a bona fide freaking terrorist then. You belittle him as an attention monger because you do not have the courage to stand up for your rights? He is "just out to stir up trouble" in the community? Really.

A police officer cannot just come up and hassle you anytime they want to. They have to have a reason to ask you. If you are driving, you have provided them with a reason to ask for ID. Walking down the sidewalk? Nope, don't have to give them ID.

The STATE does not issue anyone a CHL, the Sheriff of the county you live in does. This is a very good thing and everyone should think about it.

 

[biggie24420]

So, because this guy has chosen to stand up for his rights more than once he some sort of extremist? I must be a bona fide freaking terrorist then. You belittle him as an attention monger because you do not have the courage to stand up for your rights? He is "just out to stir up trouble" in the community? Really.

A police officer cannot just come up and hassle you anytime they want to. They have to have a reason to ask you. If you are driving, you have provided them with a reason to ask for ID. Walking down the sidewalk? Nope, don't have to give them ID.

The STATE does not issue anyone a CHL, the Sheriff of the county you live in does. This is a very good thing and everyone should think about it.

very good, thanks for the info......... oh and BURN troll(s)!!!! hahahahah