Me vs. Beaverton Police

[Sasquatchvnv]

As I was sitting here reading the comments thinking, really? How can form a response that doesn't come off as i'm sounding like a douche... Then I came across yours. Words cannot express how much I agree with your post, I think you nailed it perfectly. I think... I love you Bwahahahaha..

But in all seriousness. I do agree with this statement. Yes the police to have a duty to check it out. But once he has determined the OP is legal, that is the end of it. I will not have my rights infringed or compromise my safety for other peoples "feelings". Especially the "sheeple". Whether I choose to open carry or conceal carry is between God, My Wife, and Myself. Why do you feel the need to walk down the sidewalk. You could get mugged, you should've know better. Why do you feel the need to drive a car to work? You should ride a bike it's safer. If I am conducting myself in a civilized, lawful, manner then the Govt or anyone else for that matter does not get to tell me how to do that.

Ditto!

 

[dave]

I listened to both videos. My impression was that 1) the situation was obviously tense in your voice and descriptions with the offiers, 2) I think you were pressing the limits of their tollerance and politeness, and 3) your conversation with the sargent in the second call was slightly challenging to him--and he appeared to be loosing his tollerance with you. Overall, I think that they handeled the matter very well when you consider what the sargent had to say in the second video. REMEMBER TODAY'S POLICE ARE WIRED TIGHT BECAUSE OFALL THE CRAP THEY HAVE TO DO. SO, WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER POLICE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO BE SOFT SPOKEN AND POLITE AND SEEK OUT INFORMATON THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE YOU.

Remember the walk away: when they leave you they will have an attitude toward's the next open carry chl. YOU ARE AN AMBASSADOR OF OPEN OR CHL CARRYING GOOD WILL.

Very well said!

 

[supergenius]

I think a few of you are seriously disillusioned.

 

[R-Rizzo]

Wow, imagine that, the thread has deteriated <SP?> in to yet another Open Carry vs Concealed Carry debate. Look, what it boils down to is however you choose to carry. Continue to do it lawfully and you'll be fine. You do not have to justify to anyone why or how you choose to carry. That's why its called choice. If you Open Carry, personally I would expect to be stopped at some point. Its the nature of the area we live in. Be respectful, and polite. A field contact is NOT the time to argue law. You have your opinion, the Officer has theirs. No amount of explanation is gonna change either and it will be up to the court to decide who was right. Do your homework and make smart choices. That is all.

 

[pchewn]

I think a few of you are seriously disillusioned.

I guarantee it....

The challenge is identifying the disillusioned from the normal.

 

[biggie24420]

I too don't have a problem with the POLICE checking me out. If I open carry and someone calls me in, so what the police showed up to check me out. The problem I have is when I show them my license and they check me out and find out that everything is fine, they don't just go away....... they stick around and try to intimidate me. Also as far as I know, there was just one school close to me and that was BEAVERTON HIGH SCHOOL and I was not anywhere near that place. I WILL open carry again in the future but I think it is wrong for someone to assume that just because I open carry that I make them look bad........ how? I am legally able to and it's my right to do so. I was calmly walking down the street, not yelling, not pointing my gun at people, not holding a racist sign. I was not being threatening in any way.
Was the public alarmed because they saw a pistol on my hip? well yeah no doubt about that and that is where the police checking up on me comes in, and again I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
Some of you say that I sounded challenging, and that I pressed the officers too much or whatever...... do you think I am gonna stand there and just take it? NO!!!! I was polite to the officers and I stood my ground and when Officer Carino saw that I was not buying his BS, he got annoyed with me and started making comments about how my license could get revoked (that is threat in my book). So I stayed calm and respectful and obtained their information and I requested to have a SGT contact me through none emergency dispatch after the officers were done with me. You can hear in the second video that the SGT said after they checked me out, they were done with their stop..... but how officer Carino wanted to give me some pointers or advice or whatever. No one asked for his advise and they should have just left me alone and went about their business. They never told me that the stop was over after they ran my ID and found out that everything was cool.

I knew better, I made the mistake of talking to police when I should have just showed them ID, stayed quiet and when they were done checking me.... I should have asked if I was free to go and just grabbed my ID and walked away. Next time that is what I am going to do..... If I was allowed to video tape this whole thing, you guys would see how Officer Carino was messing with me, how he LIED to his SGT about not saying anything to me about county being able to revoke my license..... Carino DID make comments about how county could be contacted and how my license could have been in jeopardy.
As far as multiple calls go, they already made contact with me, they know who I am and what I look like so when more people call in, dispatch can ask for my description and relay that to the officers and if they need to still respond to the call they can drive by me and find out that I am the same guy they stopped a while ago and they don't have to even get out of their car to waste my time or their time. Dispatch can also tell the concerned citizen that BILLY BOB has a license and the RIGHT to be open carrying.

I can't wait for when it gets cold and I have to wear a ski mask to keep my face warm (and NO I would not be open carrying with a mask lol)....... will the police stop me and make me move my ski mask because I am ALARMING THE PUBLIC? I have sinus issues and I have to keep my face warm or I get an infection and i'm down for two weeks. Are they gonna pass a city ordinance that says NO SKI MASKS? It is my actions that should be considered not what I have on (to a point)...... If I am walking down the street or standing at the bus stop there should be no problems and again I have no problem if I get stopped by police but I don't need to be treated like a criminal and intimidated by police....... If I am lurking behind a dumpster hiding.... yeah that is suspicious and that would be a problem.

 

[Stomper]

I see valid points on "both sides" of this issue... I'm not defending "punk tactics" by LEO's, but they ARE human, have REAL stress, deal with REAL mortal danger, and most of them generally want to make a difference for the good of us all, so it MIGHT be a case for stress/frustration on Carino's part (resulting in shooting his mouth off just a tad much)... or it MIGHT be "punk tactics"... dunno, wasn't there, can't hear the "replay".

FWIW, you have every legal/moral right to do what you are doing, you sound prepared for the eventuality you will have a LEO contact/interview, just let the "human factor" of the LEO's roll off you as long as they don't "tread on you".

Now as for that Pt.-2 video... IMHO you are in violation, and it may be prudent to remove it because if it goes "viral" and "Sgt. Stedinko" gets wind of it, you could be facing much larger issues, and the (legitimate) point you are trying to make is lost on everyone. Posting that is not going to force the involved LEO's to "see it your way", any more than they are going to force you to "see it their way" by attempting to verbally intimidate you with BS bluster.


... I'm just sayin'

 

[U201494]

I too don't have a problem with the POLICE checking me out. If I open carry and someone calls me in, so what the police showed up to check me out. The problem I have is when I show them my license and they check me out and find out that everything is fine, they don't just go away....... they stick around and try to intimidate me.

Get used to it, if you walk around with a gun on display this will continue to happen and the police will continue to give you their opinion. All legal.

Also as far as I know, there was just one school close to me and that was BEAVERTON HIGH SCHOOL and I was not anywhere near that place.

It is 6 blocks away. With all of the school shootings that have happened in recent years the police and citizens will be quick to respond to someone with a gun.

I WILL open carry again in the future but I think it is wrong for someone to assume that just because I open carry that I make them look bad........ how?

Like it or not, we all belong to the same fraternity and some of us have worked very hard to get to the point where we are today - that is - able to carry a weapon legally. Not long ago it was different. So yes, we want to protect what we fought for. Your attitude will get you on the news next and then media attention for all of us.

I am legally able to and it's my right to do so. I was calmly walking down the street, not yelling, not pointing my gun at people, not holding a racist sign. I was not being threatening in any way.

The gun itself is threatening and down right scary to most people. Most folks have never been in the same room with a gun much less see a man walking along with one. They get all of their gun info from the media.

Was the public alarmed because they saw a pistol on my hip? well yeah no doubt about that and that is where the police checking up on me comes in, and again I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

You did this time.

Some of you say that I sounded challenging, and that I pressed the officers too much or whatever...... do you think I am gonna stand there and just take it? NO!!!!

You asked and we told you.

I was polite to the officers and I stood my ground and when Officer Carino saw that I was not buying his BS, he got annoyed with me and started making comments about how my license could get revoked (that is threat in my book). So I stayed calm and respectful and obtained their information and I requested to have a SGT contact me through none emergency dispatch after the officers were done with me. You can hear in the second video that the SGT said after they checked me out, they were done with their stop..... but how officer Carino wanted to give me some pointers or advice or whatever. No one asked for his advise and they should have just left me alone and went about their business. They never told me that the stop was over after they ran my ID and found out that everything was cool.

You will get the advise even if you do not ask for. Again, get used to it. The police do not want to spend their time dealing with situations like this. So if they can get you to cover the weapon they do not get called and can spend time fighting crime.

I knew better, I made the mistake of talking to police when I should have just showed them ID, stayed quiet and when they were done checking me.... I should have asked if I was free to go and just grabbed my ID and walked away. Next time that is what I am going to do.....

Good idea to be thinking ahead, it will happen again.

As far as multiple calls go, they already made contact with me, they know who I am and what I look like so when more people call in, dispatch can ask for my description and relay that to the officers and if they need to still respond to the call they can drive by me and find out that I am the same guy they stopped a while ago and they don't have to even get out of their car to waste my time or their time. Dispatch can also tell the concerned citizen that BILLY BOB has a license and the RIGHT to be open carrying.

Do you really believe this will happen?

I can't wait for when it gets cold and I have to wear a ski mask to keep my face warm (and NO I would not be open carrying with a mask lol)....... will the police stop me and make me move my ski mask because I am ALARMING THE PUBLIC? I have sinus issues and I have to keep my face warm or I get an infection and i'm down for two weeks. Are they gonna pass a city ordinance that says NO SKI MASKS? It is my actions that should be considered not what I have on (to a point)...... If I am walking down the street or standing at the bus stop there should be no problems and again I have no problem if I get stopped by police but I don't need to be treated like a criminal and intimidated by police....... If I am lurking behind a dumpster hiding.... yeah that is suspicious and that would be a problem.

Good luck.

 

[biggie24420]

Reggie Dunlop----- thank you for your comments and I do see where you are coming from.... I must also say that it appears that I had a problems with the police making the stop. Again my problem was that they were out of line in my opinion by harassing me.... sure it will happen again as I continue to open carry in the future and that is something that I have to deal with as I exercise my right to open carry. When and if this happens again, I will do the same as far as taking names and reporting it. My intentions are not to pick on police and cause problems but I can not stand down and have such behavior be accepted. As long as what I am doing is legal I will continue to do so...... If that worries someone that they are gonna look bad because they are a CHL holder, well maybe they need to give up that right and not be a CHL holder.....

As far as the school thing goes........ if they are really worried about someone open carrying within a certain distance of a school, well maybe they need to have stronger police presence and or maybe have armed guards on school properties.... because whether they like it or not, I am within my right to open carry and I will and I will not set foot on school property open carrying..... conceal carry on school property is another thing and as I understand it is not illegal to conceal carry on school property (with valid CHL) unless it is OSU or whatever and even then that is not a state law, but private property issue. If my intentions were to go shoot up a school, I would not let anyone know I was armed, I would just show up and start blasting away. I would never kill for no reason, I would however shoot to kill to defend my life or the life of my loved ones.

 

[biggie24420]

I see valid points on "both sides" of this issue... I'm not defending "punk tactics" by LEO's, but they ARE human, have REAL stress, deal with REAL mortal danger, and most of them generally want to make a difference for the good of us all, so it MIGHT be a case for stress/frustration on Carino's part (resulting in shooting his mouth off just a tad much)... or it MIGHT be "punk tactics"... dunno, wasn't there, can't hear the "replay".

FWIW, you have every legal/moral right to do what you are doing, you sound prepared for the eventuality you will have a LEO contact/interview, just let the "human factor" of the LEO's roll off you as long as they don't "tread on you".

Now as for that Pt.-2 video... IMHO you are in violation, and it may be prudent to remove it because if it goes "viral" and "Sgt. Stedinko" gets wind of it, you could be facing much larger issues, and the (legitimate) point you are trying to make is lost on everyone. Posting that is not going to force the involved LEO's to "see it your way", any more than they are going to force you to "see it their way" by attempting to verbally intimidate you with BS bluster.


... I'm just sayin'

How am I in violation of recording the SGT when in oregon only ONE person has to know the conversation is being recorded? I was that ONE person who knew the conversation was being recorded. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I just want to know what makes you believe that this is a violation?

 

[Stomper]

I was wrong in thinking you are in violation and from what I have now learned you are in the clear, but don't get me wrong, I'm no lawyer (I have a soul, thank you )...


I found this from a website with google-foo, hope it helps!



Covertly Recording Telephone Conversations
Compiled By Ralph Thomas


The federal law makes it unlawful to record telephone conversations except in one party consent cases which permit one party consent recording by state law. What that means is a person can record their own telephone conversations without the knowledge or consent of the other party in those states that allow one party consent.

It's important to understand the difference between what has become known as one party consent and two party or all party consent. One party consent simply means that one party to the conversation must have knowledge and give consent to the recording. Two party or all party consent means that every party to the conversation must have knowledge and give consent to the recording.

There are twelve states that require all party consent. They are:


California
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Montana
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

There are 38 states that permit one party consent. They are:
Alaska
Arkansas
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

In all 50 states and through federal law, it's considered illegal to record telephone conversations outside of one party consent. There are a couple of exceptions. In the state of California, one party consent can be applied only under circumstances in which one party is involved in criminal activity which would include extortion or blackmail. In the state of Arizona, the subscriber to a telephone service can record telephone conversations with no party consent when criminal activity is involved. Other than those two known exceptions, all other recordings outside of those states that permit one party consent are a violation of state and federal law. The question is often asked by clients if they can record the telephone conversations of their spouse in a domestic case or the conversations of their children concerning drug usage. In both of these cases, the answer is it's unlawful. Many clients will complain that they own the telephone and pay the telephone bill so they should therefore have a right to record what they want. However, the law doesn't address who owns the phone nor who pays the phone bill. It only addresses the use of one party and all party consent. Anything outside of that is a violation of state law and federal wiretapping law.

The Federal Communications Commission goes further into details on recording telephone conversations and states that the party recording must give verbal notification before the recording and that there must be a beep tone on the line to indicate that the line is being recorded.

 

[Karma]

In Oregon one person has to know that a recording is being made. You knew the recording was being made and it is my understanding that it is legal. The only think I do not know, is if there is some b.s. law that changes things when law enforcement is involved. I do not know of anything like that, but I just figured I would throw that out in case someone else knows something I don't. As far as I know, you are perfectly legal though.

 

[biggie24420]

I have decided to pull the videos off for now.......... I will update this post as soon as I can. I have to head to work and I just don't have time right now.... thank you.

 

[Karma]

As I was sitting here reading the comments thinking, really? How can form a response that doesn't come off as i'm sounding like a douche... Then I came across yours. Words cannot express how much I agree with your post, I think you nailed it perfectly. I think... I love you Bwahahahaha..

But in all seriousness. I do agree with this statement. Yes the police to have a duty to check it out. But once he has determined the OP is legal, that is the end of it. I will not have my rights infringed or compromise my safety for other peoples "feelings". Especially the "sheeple". Whether I choose to open carry or conceal carry is between God, My Wife, and Myself. Why do you feel the need to walk down the sidewalk. You could get mugged, you should've know better. Why do you feel the need to drive a car to work? You should ride a bike it's safer. If I am conducting myself in a civilized, lawful, manner then the Govt or anyone else for that matter does not get to tell me how to do that.

LOL. Thanks man. Nice to feel appreciated. LOL. It sounds like we have the same thoughts here. There should be nothing wrong with us exercising our rights in whatever way we see fit, as long as we are not causing injury to anyone else.

 

[LCspeedsteel]

CHL exempt, Ok. I am a little slow but where does it say a person without a CHL can not open carry in Portland? Loaded no. I see that. But unloaded?

to me, carrying unloaded is like going on a road trip without fuel..... i know in other countries (california) its your only option to do so, but otherwise i would compare carrying to wearing a shirt with a bulls eye on it

 

[orygun]

Right or wrong, it's like you were looking for attention, and I think that's stupid. I, too, am a CHL holder but I recognize the fact that many "city folk" are uncomfortable around firearms. I prefer to not draw attention to myself when carrying. But that's my choice.
If you pack a gun openly in the city, be prepared to be challenged by the police. In the city of Portland, for example, it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm unless you have a CHL, and then it's assumed you comply with the "C" part. Concealed. So, who is going to check you out, to make sure you have are legal? It would be the Portland Police, that's who.
Are you in the right? Sure. Did that make you immune to questioning to make sure you are "in the right"? No. Does that make them wrong and you right? No.

Do something that draws attention and then complain when that happens? I mean, even you admitted that the high school is nearby. You know that schools are "gun free zones". ( I despise that, too)

Dude, you need to find something else for entertainment. What you did does not change the way people think.

 

[Father of four]

to me, carrying unloaded is like going on a road trip without fuel..... i know in other countries (california) its your only option to do so, but otherwise i would compare carrying to wearing a shirt with a bulls eye on it

I agree..like someone had said. Its a heavy expensive club without its bullets.

 

[Father of four]

What I hear is some of you are using the point of convenience.

It could become inconvenient for us to use our right to carry openly without a CHL permit. Because we might get questioned by the LEO. And since it could become an inconvenience we should just keep our guns at home unless we ask for permission to carry in concealed.
Because in asserting our right we could make others feel uncomfortable and could make it inconvenient for a LEO to pull up and ask us a few questions.

Sounds like if we did it your way then all of our rights will be gone soon. We can just ask for permission. Why not just make it so no one can open carry if you chose inconvenience over rights.

 

[Father of four]

From the Movie Demolition Man....Edgar Friendly (Denis Leary) said:
"According to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal?"

I want FREEDOM!

 

[biggie24420]

Ok fellas, I have re-posted...... Now that I have had some time to think and calm down I think the new thread makes a little more since. Not that I was heated but I HATE being treated like a criminal and now that some time past I am cool lol. Also STOMPER, thank you for posting the phone call recording law thinggie lol. Another thing..... SGT also indicated in the phone call that it is not illegal. I know you can't tap into a conversation between two people and record that but this is not the case and I don't know much about the other laws so i will keep quiet.
Once again thank you guys for sharing your thoughts with me on this matter.