Max loads

[Argonaut]

I installed heavy double recoil springs in that Commander and did get to a point where some cases bulged but not at the 1300 FPS level. They always functioned, rechambered and ejected fine. Speer made a great 200 grain JHP but it needed velocity to expand well. I was getting 69-70 caliber expansion with no bullet weight loss.

 

[po18guy]

I have fired that auto rim load in ACP brass with hollow points for social work in my 1911's. I mentioned the load some time ago and the 10mm guys laughed at me......silly geeks. I have loaded some 185 grain bullets to the 1400 FPS level too but had a problem with keyholing. The bullets are too short to be driven that hard.

Have a frame buffer or stout recoil spring? With those loads, maybe the new Hornady 185 grain FTX would stabilize.

For the OP: In any event the usual caveats apply: Watch for sticky extraction, flattened or cratered primers, and check brass frequently for splits or potential case head separation. If you do not have one, get a chronograph and check those velocities. Bullet for bullet and grain for grain, they should +/- equal what is published. Remember that hot days will increase both pressure and velocity, and the opposite on cold days.

 

[Alan12013]

Today I found another book load discrepancy of 1.2 grains of Accurate 4350... I think I am going to go ahead and utilize my best judgement and load em' on up. I'll start at my lowest loads on the ladder first and just stop if I hit something accurate. However today I read something that was counter to what I had thought which will change my approach... I was under the impression that a bullet/powder combo will be accurate or it wont as long as you ladder test it and changing seating depth will only help rein in the last tiny bit of accuracy but from what I read (sounded pretty darned scientific and well tested) changing seating depth can have the same effect as changing grain weight. They used a 223 and found some areas where .3grains would cause groups to go from 1' to 1/2 or a bit less dramatic, they found seating depth to have a similar effect. Now I'm thinking of doing 2 boxes per ladder test per bullet/powder combo with 1 right up on the lands and the other back off a bit close to factory load area just for experimentation purposes... Any one ran something like that before? If I don't get too many hits on this I may make a new thread just to see what peoples experience has been.

Also found a funny joke that some may appreciate: "There are old reloaders and bold reloaders but there aren't any old bold reloaders" lol

 

[Alan12013]

Have a frame buffer or stout recoil spring? With those loads, maybe the new Hornady 185 grain FTX would stabilize.

For the OP: In any event the usual caveats apply: Watch for sticky extraction, flattened or cratered primers, and check brass frequently for splits or potential case head separation. If you do not have one, get a chronograph and check those velocities. Bullet for bullet and grain for grain, they should +/- equal what is published. Remember that hot days will increase both pressure and velocity, and the opposite on cold days.

Thanks for the info. I do have a chrony. I've seen the case neck splitting from someone that told me they loaded them hot, I was sorting through their cases trying to casually help them out when I started noticing it. However, I've studied all the primers and haven't seen one that is flattened or cratered. I'm assuming it's something that I will know when I see it or is it something very minor?

 

[Sniper03]

Alan
First of all let me say I am not a proponent of MAX Loads!
For several reasons. But the most important to me is peak accuracy and performance. You will usually find that somewhere between the average load and the Max Load. But generally not normally at all with a max load. Not to mention the can have an effect on the weapon due to the increased pressures they produce. OMI! They Max Loads suggested by the manufacturer is to also protect against liability if you understand what I am saying. So with the right Powder and procedures their Max Load is still with in the safe zone as far as possible blow ups! But still as I mentioned a steady diet of Max Loads can cause weapon damage over time.

Sniper 03

 

[po18guy]

However, I've studied all the primers and haven't seen one that is flattened or cratered. I'm assuming it's something that I will know when I see it or is it something very minor?

This page shows what to look for: Primers and Pressure Analysis by James Calhoon « Daily Bulletin

 

[JRuby]

The problem I have with what they say is a max load today is no where near what they considered a mac load 50 years ago. Speer manuals is a perfect example of ty his. I have been wanting to play with 38+p+ loads using 296 powder in 357 magnums. Today's manual shoes 7.0 grains is max in a 38 but one of the earlier speer manual shoes 8.0 as max. To me there is no safe load you must use your brains and use caution when reloading. Manuals are where you start.
A perfectly good load today might be too much on a 100 degree day..

 

[jordanka16]

Thanks for the info. I do have a chrony. I've seen the case neck splitting from someone that told me they loaded them hot, I was sorting through their cases trying to casually help them out when I started noticing it. However, I've studied all the primers and haven't seen one that is flattened or cratered. I'm assuming it's something that I will know when I see it or is it something very minor?

Case necks splitting is usually indicative of the end of case life, not just hot loads, primers are my least favorite way of determining if loads are too hot. First is velocity, if I get velocities far above what a book says I am very cautious about the loads. Second is marks on the case head, ie ejector marks. Third is sticky extraction. This order varies though, my .308 rem 700 will always tell me the loads are getting too hot with sticky extraction, the primers flow a little even at min loads, it's just the bolt design.

 

[JRuby]

One thing that is often over looked is the platform you are loading for. I will not put as hot of a load through my M1a that I will through a bolt 308. Powder is also a consideration I like imr 4350 in bolt guns the fastest powder I will put through a semi is imr4064. A problem is that it used to be one section in reloading manuals for 308. It pays great dividends to research what you are doing besides just reading the manual. Even different types of brass can change pressures.Take lake city versus remington comm brass is a good example of this.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

start 10% off max load and work your way up by checking velocity and pressure signs. all it takes is a blown out webbing and someones missing half a face.

 

[ageingstudent]

Case necks splitting is usually indicative of the end of case life, not just hot loads, primers are my least favorite way of determining if loads are too hot. First is velocity, if I get velocities far above what a book says I am very cautious about the loads. Second is marks on the case head, ie ejector marks. Third is sticky extraction. This order varies though, my .308 rem 700 will always tell me the loads are getting too hot with sticky extraction, the primers flow a little even at min loads, it's just the bolt design.

Totally agree. Specific caliber (ie: 38 vs .357 operating at roughly 2x .38 pressures) and the gun itself can make for flatter primers. I've yet to see a factory or a handload in .22-250 operating at spec pressures and velocities that doesn't have at least somewhat flattened primers, and depending on the firing pin hole maybe cratering that means nothing. I trust extractor/ejector marks, sticky extraction, and bolt face marks much more than flat/flatt-er/flattest primers. All primers are not created equal either, some are softer than others. Good to watch them I think, but not the definitive sign of over pressure. CCI primers are fairly hard in my experience. Seems like the load can get pretty hot before I see significant flattening vs other brands.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I'm wondering what general consensus is here. I have some confusion. One strange thing is that I have plenty of room left in some loads that my Lee reloading book states is a "compressed load". Then when I was comparing loads, my Lee book states a max load of 56.6 yet the powder company has a max load of 58.3 with RL-22 in my 270win cartridge. Is it basically general consensus that book listed max loads are roughly the max load so long as you're safe and cautiously watch for pressure signs as well as applying common sense to the capacity, velocity/pressure ratios, and the burn type of your powder? I want to do incremental testing for bullet and powder combos and have loaded several sets of combos within the Lee recommendations but when I see discrepancies like the ones stated above, I'm really wanting to use my own load data and work up from low to high cautiously.

Don't forget that a compressed load will only be compressed if you are following all specs in the recipe, including COAL.
If you are loading the bullets farther out (closer to the lands) you may find there's little or no compression of the powder at all.
This usually isn't a problem in the .270 when using light varmint bullets like the 110s, but with 150s for instance, it can make a big difference as most recipes call for the bullet to be seated pretty deep in the casing, resulting in a COAL that may be well short of the lands.
But as long as they fit in the mag well, and they aren't jammed in the lands I never had a problem, and max loads at my preferred COALs tended to be slightly over the book max.
Yet never showed pressure signs other than shorter case life.

Just start low and work up, looking for pressure signs as you go.

 

[Alan12013]

Don't forget that a compressed load will only be compressed if you are following all specs in the recipe, including COAL.
If you are loading the bullets farther out (closer to the lands) you may find there's little or no compression of the powder at all.
This usually isn't a problem in the .270 when using light varmint bullets like the 110s, but with 150s for instance, it can make a big difference as most recipes call for the bullet to be seated pretty deep in the casing, resulting in a COAL that may be well short of the lands.
But as long as they fit in the mag well, and they aren't jammed in the lands I never had a problem, and max loads at my preferred COALs tended to be slightly over the book max.
Yet never showed pressure signs other than shorter case life.

Just start low and work up, looking for pressure signs as you go.

Thank you. That's my plan right now. I just got it sighted in today with a box of factory ammo. Once I got it sighted in I stretched it out a ways for my last5 shots ... I've never looked at COAL, I have only measured ogive distance with comparator, perhaps I'll have to look into that. My lee dead length seater die will not seat my varmint bullets... I think I ruined 33 rounds because I've got a 33 round ladder with 110gr ssts floating loose enough to spin around inside these cases, when I use my bullet puller I'm assuming powder will be everywhere. Pretty upset that my die wont seat these little suckers! Will go buy RCBS dies tomorrow I guess.