Martial Law

[Trlsmn]

Okay, let's say Obama is a Muslim. How does that change anything? I elected a Commander in Chief not a Pastor in chief. I could care less what his religion is.

Not to point out the flaws in your logic but, how is it that a Muslim had a Christian pastor (albeit an angry one) for 20 years?

"Christian Nation"--I interpret this phrase to mean a majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians. We have separation of church and state in this country and I fail to see how the religion of my founding fathers, my president, or any one else in government matters unless they have some religious belief that would prevent them from carrying out their sworn duties.

While there is a good argument to be made against your thinking it is way off relevance to the topic.

 

[Gunner3456]

- snip - We have separation of church and state in this country and I fail to see how the religion of my founding fathers, my president, or any one else in government matters unless they have some religious belief that would prevent them from carrying out their sworn duties.

"We are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights. Among those are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

When we toss out the creator part, where then do we get our rights? From the government? I'd say no, they are busy taking away our rights. Godless governments (try China or Russia) usually wind up as dictatorships.

No where in our Declaration of Independence or in our Constitution is the phrase "separation of church and state" mentioned. No way, no how. To the contrary, the founders believed we got our rights from a Creator.

The only thing our constitution says about religion is that the government may not establish one particular religion as the official religion, and just as important, it may NOT infringe on our individual rights to practice our religion.

 

[dario541]

Gunner3456 Is 100% correct. The Constitution only restricts CONGRESS - NO ONE ELSE! I know that the Supreme Court has perverted the original meaning of the First Amendment. But keep this in mind: Down through the years the Supreme Court has ruled that SLAVERY was legal. After slavery was abolished they ruled that "Separate but equal" was legal. The Supreme Court consists of people who consider themselves ELITESTS. That is why you always hear "We need another liberal Judge" or "another conservative Judge" because these DRONES vote their own biases without a clue as to what the Constitution (The basic law of the land) says. The Constitution guarantees "Freedom of Religion" but DOES NOT guarantee "freedom from religion.

 

[shibbershabber]

I'm preparing by having a plan that will ensure my loved ones and my safety ( a place to go to that isn't the city), I dont think that there is a direct corelation betweem our new president and hitler, but a corealtion between the way both governments are run is very similar, fascism basically.

If you think that you are going to escape fascist totalitarian oppression by taking off into the woods... you have been reading too many survivalist blogs.

Not possible.

 

[shibbershabber]

The Constitution guarantees "Freedom of Religion" but DOES NOT guarantee "freedom from religion.

That is not accurate...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


Read the above, then reconcile your statement.

Freedom of religion IS freedom from religion.

Essentially what you are saying is that you are free to observe whichever religion you want, as long as you have some religion. In other words, the first amendment doesnt protect agnostics or athiests.

 

[dario541]

Read it again! The only restriction in the First Amendment is against Congress - ''Congress shall MAKE NO LAW..." No other restrictions! Neither against or for Christians or atheists. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW!

 

[gunnoob75]

That is not accurate...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


Read the above, then reconcile your statement.

Freedom of religion IS freedom from religion.

Essentially what you are saying is that you are free to observe whichever religion you want, as long as you have some religion. In other words, the first amendment doesnt protect agnostics or athiests.

No. You have the right to practice being Agnostic however you see fit.

And you get to deal with Christians practicing their religion. And anyone else who wants to. And you get to put up with it. Because the constitution gives them that right. Where in the constitution does it say you have a right not to witness religion? That you are allowed to go through your whole life without seeing a church, a cross, or even a pastor walking down the road?

It doesn't. You need to respect other religions, just like they respect your right to be agnostic.

 

[Trlsmn]

No. You have the right to practice being Agnostic however you see fit.

And you get to deal with Christians practicing their religion. And anyone else who wants to. And you get to put up with it. Because the constitution gives them that right. Where in the constitution does it say you have a right not to witness religion? That you are allowed to go through your whole life without seeing a church, a cross, or even a pastor walking down the road?

It doesn't. You need to respect other religions, just like they respect your right to be agnostic.

Exactly and I would like to point out that Agnostics are not the same as Atheists.

ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)
n.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

I've always felt that Atheists are the ones pushing the ACLU on their quest to destroy all religion.

To me Atheists not only don't believe in God they are mad that anyone else could believe.

 

[dario541]

Hey Crazy White Man!

Obama is a Christian? Please! He is anything but!

A Christian is someone who recognizes Jesus Christ as the true Son of God, who bled and died for us. That's what puts the "Christ" in "Christian.

Did you listen to his pastor of 20 years, and the hate that spewed from him? As a "Christian", how could he have sat and listened to that garbage for that long?

O. has recently stated that we are not a Christian nation. If he had actually read what our founding fathers wrote, he would have known that they all were.

O. also stated in his book, that he will stand with the Muslims should the political winds turn ugly. Wow.

More later.

Obama Bin Laden was raised a Moslem. His school records show that. Altough he did attend an America hating church, just going through the door does not make anything out of anybody. While visiting the Middle East, Obama Bin Laden told the Moslem hordes that "America is NOT a Christian Nation, It is MOSLEM!" (How many Moslems are reading this forum?) While there, President Bin Laden comfortably wore Moslem clothing (I don't think I would want to be seen in public dressed that way.) When he appeared at Notre Dame to make a speech, he ordered a portrait of Jesus to be covered. In his book, he says that he will stand with the Moslems. So, if it walks like a Moslem, talks like a Moslem, thinks like a Moslem and acts like a Moslem, IT SURE AIN'T A CHRISTIAN!!!

 

[Katonic]

Is oldfart an insurgent to this forum or what he seems to want to tell us that the government is our friend either he is a leftist that sneaked in or he has had the wool pulled over his eyes. First off Obama is sitting in the power seat illegally and secondly he does not have Americas best interest at heart. It is more likely that he is trying to destroy this country from the inside-out. No one can stand up toe to toe with our military the only way to bring America down is from the inside. So our enemies have found a way to ruin us through our own system by backing Obama. And getting a person elected into power who from all I have seen has done nothing good for America or it's citizens. I hope our Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen have the courage to stand against this foe when the time comes. Thats my opinion anyways LOL.

 

[Trlsmn]

Is oldfart an insurgent to this forum or what he seems to want to tell us that the government is our friend either he is a leftist that sneaked in or he has had the wool pulled over his eyes. First off Obama is sitting in the power seat illegally and secondly he does not have Americas best interest at heart. It is more likely that he is trying to destroy this country from the inside-out. No one can stand up toe to toe with our military the only way to bring America down is from the inside. So our enemies have found a way to ruin us through our own system by backing Obama. And getting a person elected into power who from all I have seen has done nothing good for America or it's citizens. I hope our Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen have the courage to stand against this foe when the time comes. Thats my opinion anyways LOL.

Huh? Oldfart doesn't seem at all leftist to me? There are plenty of Libs here to chose from though, are you sure you have the right guy?

 

[shibbershabber]

Read it again! The only restriction in the First Amendment is against Congress - ''Congress shall MAKE NO LAW..." No other restrictions! Neither against or for Christians or atheists. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW!

Read what again?!?!?

YOU said: "The Constitution guarantees "Freedom of Religion" but DOES NOT guarantee "freedom from religion."

I need not read read anything but your original comment.

I have read the 1A many times, nowhere does it mention "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" although that is certainly what it implies.

Reading your statement, I got the feeling you were saying that the Constitution guarantees you the ability to choose whichever religion you like (freedom of religion), but did not safeguard a choice to be free from any kind of religious practice(freedom from religion).

Maybe I misunderstood what the intent of your statement was...

 

[shibbershabber]

No. You have the right to practice being Agnostic however you see fit.

And you get to deal with Christians practicing their religion. And anyone else who wants to. And you get to put up with it. Because the constitution gives them that right. Where in the constitution does it say you have a right not to witness religion? That you are allowed to go through your whole life without seeing a church, a cross, or even a pastor walking down the road?

It doesn't. You need to respect other religions, just like they respect your right to be agnostic.

I have no illusions of what is protected and what is not.

You may have misread my post as it was a comment made to dario541 based on his previous statement.

We are in agreement here.

 

[Gunner3456]

Read what again?!?!?

YOU said: "The Constitution guarantees "Freedom of Religion" but DOES NOT guarantee "freedom from religion."

I need not read read anything but your original comment.

I have read the 1A many times, nowhere does it mention "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" although that is certainly what it implies.

Reading your statement, I got the feeling you were saying that the Constitution guarantees you the ability to choose whichever religion you like (freedom of religion), but did not safeguard a choice to be free from any kind of religious practice(freedom from religion).

Maybe I misunderstood what the intent of your statement was...

While the constitution never uses the terms "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" there is a subtle way in which we don't have "freedom from religion."

In order to allow others to have freedom to practice religion (or freedom of speech for that matter,) sometimes you will inadvertently be exposed to that. An example would be when you drive down the street and see a church which displays a cross and maybe even a reader board with a religious message on it. The constitution prohibits the government from making any law "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion or the freedom of speech.

No one can force a religion on us (the "establishment clause") but neither can we be free of the plain fact that others will openly practice their religion. The constitution guarantees that people have the right to freely practice their religion. It also guarantees that no one can force a religion on you.

 

[shibbershabber]

While the constitution never uses the terms "freedom of religion" or "freedom from religion" there is a subtle way in which we don't have "freedom from religion."

In order to allow others to have freedom to practice religion (or freedom of speech for that matter,) sometimes you will inadvertently be exposed to that. An example would be when you drive down the street and see a church which displays a cross and maybe even a reader board with a religious message on it. The constitution prohibits the government from making any law "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion or the freedom of speech.

No one can force a religion on us (the "establishment clause") but neither can we be free of the plain fact that others will openly practice their religion. The constitution guarantees that people have the right to freely practice their religion. It also guarantees that no one can force a religion on you.

Indeed.

I think I had a different understanding of what yall were saying by "freedom from religion"

I was thinking that freedom from religion was understood as choosing not to observe any religion... or freedom from forced conversion.
I realize now that you guys were meaning NO freedom from religion in the sense that there are those that do not want any public displays of religion and that freedom from religion means the absence of religion.

 

[dario541]

Let's break down the First Amendment. QUOTE:
Congress shall make NO LAW:
1. respecting an establishment of religion
2. or prohibiting the FREE excercise thereof.
or abridging:
3. the freedom of speech,
4. or of the press,
or the right of the people
5. peaceably to assemble
6. and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

What this Amendment says in PLAIN ENGLISH is that CONGRESS shall make NO LAW affecting those spelled out rights. Why is it so hard to understand? CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW! THAT IS THE ONLY RESTRICTION MENTIONED IN THIS IMPORTANT AMENDMENT!!

 

[Gunner3456]

Let's break down the First Amendment. QUOTE:
Congress shall make NO LAW:
1. respecting an establishment of religion
2. or prohibiting the FREE excercise thereof.
or abridging:
3. the freedom of speech,
4. or of the press,
or the right of the people
5. peaceably to assemble
6. and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

What this Amendment says in PLAIN ENGLISH is that CONGRESS shall make NO LAW affecting those spelled out rights. Why is it so hard to understand? CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW! THAT IS THE ONLY RESTRICTION MENTIONED IN THIS IMPORTANT AMENDMENT!!

Well said.

 

[shibbershabber]

Aren't we beating a dead horse here?

What is the point you are trying to make?

What was your point when you first brought this up?

I think we are all in agreement about what the 1A says!
I feel like we are going in circles.

 

[Trlsmn]

Aren't we beating a dead horse here?

What is the point you are trying to make?

What was your point when you first brought this up?

I think we are all in agreement about what the 1A says!
I feel like we are going in circles.