Martial Law

[gunnoob75]

Military training is a good thing.

Besides the "False" structure system, poor training is the military's biggest issue.

You will find better rifleman at a 3-gun match on Sundays, than in your general infantry unit. I've met some 3rd bat. Rangers who made my wife look high speed.

 

[PosterGuy]

Military training is a good thing.

Besides the "False" structure system, poor training is the military's biggest issue.

You will find better rifleman at a 3-gun match on Sundays, than in your general infantry unit. I've met some 3rd bat. Rangers who made my wife look high speed.

Your average infantryman will be LUCKY to spend one day per month at the range. Marksmanship training is usually lumped into one week blocks twice a year for qualification purposes. You'd be shocked at how little of a difference there is between a regular infantry unit and an "elite" infantry unit.

 

[el gringo loco]

Okay, this is my first post. What I'm wondering is, does anyone else out there see the comparisons between our new president and Adolph Hitler?

Okay, all the worried discussion about Martial Law and FEMA death camps aside, I would like to address the original poster's assertion. I know that it is now vogue within conservative circles to compare the President of the United Sates of America to, perhaps, the worst human being to have ever walked the face of the planet. I am assuming there is a significant amount of hyperbole lost on the right wing masses.... Or else, I am the only American that sees the irony of right wing extremists invoking the name of an evil right wing extremist/racist when referring to a black lefty President.

I would like to see something to support this argument. The fact is that President Obama has governed center-right thus far (otherwise we would have national healthcare already). He might voice a more progressive tilt, but his actions have been moderate to right wing (Afghanistan, TARP, etc.). Where does one see a similarity?

1. Hitler was not to fond of people of color. Obama has a tan.ICE COLD
2. Hitler killed jews. Obama: friend of Israel.CHILLY
3. Hitler: right wing fascist. Obama is purportedly a liberal (and a fascist?).BRRR
4. Hitler ruled a country he was not born in. Obama rules a country a handful of nut-jobs believe he was not born in.WARMER
5. Hitler = dictator. Obama = consensus builder to the point of ineffectiveness. COLD
6. Hitler: vegetarian. Obama eats meat (with a side of Arugula).NOPE
7. Adolph Hitler: 12 letters. Barack Obama: 11 letters CLOSER......
8. Adolph Hitler: Blame the Jews. Obama: Blame... a lack of bipartisanship? WE ALL KNOW THE REPUBLICANS RAN THE COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND. ARCTIC Conditions

I could go on for a while, but I don't see the similarity. Hitler was a grade A A-hole. Comparing President Obama to Hitler is Apples and Oranges. You might not agree with him, but he is not similar in any way. By the way, I guarantee you that the Bush Administration (mainly Cheney) trampled on the Constitution way more than President Obama ever could hope to.

 

[Bark]

Thank you El grigo loco for bringing a sense of reality into this thread.....enough said.

 

[dario541]

One tired old line that the left continually regurgitates is that Hitler was a "Right-Winger." I dispute that. We all acknowledge that Communists are "Left-Wingers" so let's compare Communists and Nazis.
Both were totalitarian goverments.
Both built huge militarys.
Both invaded and subjugated other countries.
Both were brutal and repressive.
Both wanted to conquor the world.
The Nazis hated Jews but so did the Communists. Have you never heard of the POGROMS in Russia?
Although you constantly hear about the number of deaths Hitler caused, that number pales into a small amount compared to the Communists' massive body count. According to the Guiness book of records, the Communists slaughtered more than 50 MILLION people when they took over China. Guiness says that this is the largest mass slaughter of human beings in recorded history. (I have mentioned this fact to leftists that I know and they say something like "Oh, well! It was their own people!" That makes it right? A side note is that this horrendous crime occured AFTER the United Nations was formed to prevent the reoccurrence of such a disaster.)
So, don't tell me that the Communists are better than the Nazis. I think the difference between these two evil entities is the same as the difference between a violin and a fiddle. They are BOTH LEFT WINGERS!!!

 

[Trlsmn]

You missed a little something there el hope and chango. Hitler was a great progressive statesman admired by the world at the start of his rein, look how that turned out!

 

[Trlsmn]

One tired old line that the left continually regurgitates is that Hitler was a "Right-Winger." I dispute that. We all acknowledge that Communists are "Left-Wingers" so let's compare Communists and Nazis.
Both were totalitarian goverments.
Both built huge militarys.
Both invaded and subjugated other countries.
Both were brutal and repressive.
Both wanted to conquor the world.
The Nazis hated Jews but so did the Communists. Have you never heard of the POGROMS in Russia?
Although you constantly hear about the number of deaths Hitler caused, that number pales into a small amount compared to the Communists' massive body count. According to the Guiness book of records, the Communists slaughtered more than 50 MILLION people when they took over China. Guiness says that this is the largest mass slaughter of human beings in recorded history. (I have mentioned this fact to leftists that I know and they say something like "Oh, well! It was their own people!" That makes it right? A side note is that this horrendous crime occured AFTER the United Nations was formed to prevent the reoccurrence of such a disaster.)
So, don't tell me that the Communists are better than the Nazis. I think the difference between these two evil entities is the same as the difference between a violin and a fiddle. They are BOTH LEFT WINGERS!!!

Exactly Dario! Hitler was a slacker when compared to the communist genocide. Stalin and communist Russia 50 million dead, Mao and communist China 70 million dead.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Not to mention that Obama is a "friend of" Palestine, NOT Israel. American policy has thus far been friendly towards Israel, but Obama could hardly be considered a friend outside of that.
With Obama's statements concerning the Constitution's lack of positive influence regarding the people, only negative influence limiting the gov't., it's easy to see that Obama believes in a "top-down" governmental structure. Same as ol' Adolph.
Now, contrary to what most liberal/progressive Democrats believe,...
BI-PARTISANSHIP IS NOT GETTING CONSERVATIVES TO GIVE UP THEIR IDEALS! I know you and Mrs. Pelosi would like to see that, but it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!
Bi-partisanship is developing policy that is derived from both sides of the political spectrum, and therefore agreeable to the people and voters on both sides.

So much for 2,3,5 and 8.

The others are of no meaning or relevance.
Oh, and BTW, Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or National Socialist German Workers Party. Proletariat labor advocate all the way,...
That's your guy!
Oh well, what can you expect from "the crazy white guy"?

 

[Trlsmn]

Lets do our Hitler/Obama comparison in 8 years when it's relevant el-green-go. I honestly "hope" you can then say I told you so.

As you can see Hitler took power in 1933, it took 3 years before things even started to look fishy and 6 years before the crap hit the fan!

Adolf Hitler Timeline

* 1889: Born in Braunau am Inn, Austria
* 1914: Serves in World War I as a runner for the 16th Bavarian Reserve Regiment
* 1919: Appointed aVerbindungsmann (police spy) of the Reichswehr and meets Dietrich Eckart who teaches him how to dress and speak influentially
* 1924: Sent to prison for a failed coup d'etat, writes Mein Kampf
* 1929: Meets his lifelong mistress Eva Braun
* 1932: Granted German Citizenship
* 1933: Becomes Chancellor of Germany
* 1935: Violates the Treaty of Versailles by building a massive military force
* 1936: An Axis is declared between Germany and Italy, Japan, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria join later
* 1939: Orders the invasion of Poland, Britain and France declare war on Germany
* 1939: Orders the Nazi Party to begin carrying out the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" or The Holocaust
* 1941: Breaks the non-aggression pact with Stalin and invades the Soviet Union
* 1941: Declares war against the United States
* 1943: Becomes increasingly erratic after being defeated at the Battle of Stalingrad
* 1944: Celebrates his 56th birthday in a bunker below the Reich Chancellery
* 1945: Commits suicide by shooting himself and biting into a cyanide capsule

 

[shibbershabber]

By the way, I guarantee you that the Bush Administration (mainly Cheney) trampled on the Constitution way more than President Obama ever could hope to.

Unfortunately Obama is just as bad. All of those violations you talk about... are policies that are being carried out by Obama as we speak. Not to mention other policies that he has not changed. Barack OBush is no different than any other politician, he just talks a good game but does he really intend to follow through?

 

[Buddhalux]

Your average infantryman will be LUCKY to spend one day per month at the range. Marksmanship training is usually lumped into one week blocks twice a year for qualification purposes. You'd be shocked at how little of a difference there is between a regular infantry unit and an "elite" infantry unit.

I beg to differ. I was "elite" infantry for 5 years. It was obvious when we'd fight "leg" infantry units and Marines how much better our training was. We'd spend 6 weeks out of an 18 week cycle in the field doing training missions and live fires.

 

[PosterGuy]

I beg to differ. I was "elite" infantry for 5 years. It was obvious when we'd fight "leg" infantry units and Marines how much better our training was. We'd spend 6 weeks out of an 18 week cycle in the field doing training missions and live fires.

My experience with an "elite" infantry unit was with 325 brigade of the 82nd Airborne. I was a platoon leader in a mechanized infantry battalion that was attached to them. This was about a week into the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They insisted on being the main effort on the first few missions. After the first couple of days, they learned their lesson and let the mech infantry lead the way. The 82nd shot at us almost as much as the Iraqi's. They thought that anything on tracks was the enemy. They exercised no target identification what so ever.

Once, they called us for a medevac. Being that we were mech, our medevac vehicles were M113s. Our medevac never got there. Everytime they got close, they would get shot at by the people they were supposed to be evac-ing.

 

[jordanvraptor]

I beg to differ. I was "elite" infantry for 5 years. It was obvious when we'd fight "leg" infantry units and Marines how much better our training was. We'd spend 6 weeks out of an 18 week cycle in the field doing training missions and live fires.

And then there is the National Guard like me... I shoot pretty good on everything from the M4 to the Bushmaster 25mm but some of our guys can't even qualify on the 25 meter range not to mention wearing full body armor and loadout...

In as far as martial law being declared only in certain areas. I don't think that would be true because of logistical considerations.In order to prevent hoarding and to enable diversion of critical supplies like gas, food, construction materials, and necessary labor to the harder hit areas there would have to be some form of rationing and price controls. When people don't like that, the military would be needed to augment state and local authorities even in the unaffected areas. Although the USA seems to ride out and endure after recent natural disasters and 9-11, if the scope of the disasters or attacks were more widespread there would be a call for the imposition of martial law to restore order.

 

[PeakResources]

It's interesting to watch the Obama / Bush contrast. I think many of the arguments here (though definitely not all) have a bit of "my guy / your guy" argument behind them. I'll admit that I voted for Bush. But after a lot of reflection on the Constitution and Bush's actions, I've come to realize he isn't "my guy." But neither is Obama. Unfortunately, as long as we have the argument (and our choices) narrowed between two fans of big government, we will continue to have our liberties encroached and an enrichment of those who are currently rich & powerful. We are constantly presented the choice between two bad candidates because the American public is so narrowly focused on which form of big government can solve our issues. The Republicans speak of small government for taxes, but still want to build big armies, buy lots of weapons & military contractors, and do great harm to our liberties by enacting laws. (Note that every law restricts our freedom in some way.) The dems have decided they want to nationalize everything they can get their hands on because central planning can solve all our problems. Auto industry, banking (which was already centralized when there is no good reason for it other than "flexibility"), and health care are all at risk. Both parties borrow and spend to a degree that boggles the mind.

What's the answer?
- Take a stand for things you believe in. Believe it or not, your Congressman may actually listen if you actually try to email or call. I do it.
- Let's get rid of the Federal Reserve, which was most of the cause for our current banking ills (Read: End the Fed by Ron Paul)
- Force government to reduce it's size and become re-local again by restricting spending. (Note that some the founders thought it was unconstitutional and immoral to take from one group to give to another if ANY ONE of the group who had to pay money morally objected to the use by which it was put)
- Become self sufficient. Government hates it when you're not dependent upon them for a handout. And you'll be more likely to vote for the better candidate, not the one with more taxpayer-funded goodies to give away.
- Teach your kids. The schools are there in part to brainwash them, and believe me, the teachers will take that opportunity. It's your job to impart to them proper values, not someone a teacher who may well have a dependent mentality (remember: they're government paid).
- Look at some of the alternate candidates. Some may actually have views that align with yours.
- Perhaps even attending a tea party may help.
- (BTW, I don't think these items alone are sufficient, but they're a start.)

In short, I don't think Obama or Bush are close to Hitler in action. However, I believe they both had motivation to aggregate power and money to the government & their friends. While some of their friends differed, I think many of them are the same (bankers perhaps?). I think that either would have us wanting to run under their skirts at the first sign of danger. I think both played up the dangers in front of us to get the sheeple falling in line. Don't fall in line; question the motives of those in power. Try to get the attention of your elected officials. And failing that, be prepared for whatever may come.

That's my two cents.

 

[Buddhalux]

My experience with an "elite" infantry unit was with 325 brigade of the 82nd Airborne. I was a platoon leader in a mechanized infantry battalion that was attached to them. This was about a week into the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They insisted on being the main effort on the first few missions. After the first couple of days, they learned their lesson and let the mech infantry lead the way. The 82nd shot at us almost as much as the Iraqi's. They thought that anything on tracks was the enemy. They exercised no target identification what so ever.

Once, they called us for a medevac. Being that we were mech, our medevac vehicles were M113s. Our medevac never got there. Everytime they got close, they would get shot at by the people they were supposed to be evac-ing.

Well that explains alot. The 325th Glider Rider Brigade is well know thru out the division as being the "Show and Pony" Brigade. The real paratroopers that got the tough missions were in 1st or 3rd Brigade. I was in 1st Brigade for 3 years before moving to be a door gunner on a Black Hawk my last year in Division.

 

[PosterGuy]

Well that explains alot. The 325th Glider Rider Brigade is well know thru out the division as being the "Show and Pony" Brigade. The real paratroopers that got the tough missions were in 1st or 3rd Brigade. I was in 1st Brigade for 3 years before moving to be a door gunner on a Black Hawk my last year in Division.

Now that you mention it, I remember them being refered to as the "Parade Brigade." Their imbed reporter wrote a horrible book called "Boots on the Ground" that failed to mention that the mech infantry battalion did all of the heavy fighting.

 

[svxr8dr]

Well that explains alot. The 325th Glider Rider Brigade is well know thru out the division as being the "Show and Pony" Brigade. The real paratroopers that got the tough missions were in 1st or 3rd Brigade. I was in 1st Brigade for 3 years before moving to be a door gunner on a Black Hawk my last year in Division.

When I was in 3/325 ABCT out of Vicenza Italy it was a top notch unit though it was rather separated from Division. I really noticed no difference in our missions from that of my time in the 3-75 RGR. Both were light years beyond what I saw at my last stint with leg infantry at Ft. Carson with 1-8 Inf. I might add that I'm old and that this was long ago lol.

 

[el gringo loco]

Okay, I was being a little tongue in cheek about the Obama/Hitler comparison. I was not trying to get into a conservative/progressive pee-ing match. If someone is going to throw out an accusation like Obama=Hitler, I think they should have to back it up. My point was that I have heard the comparison thrown out in conservative circles and with the exception of the following, I fail to see any similarity between the two

Hitler was a great progressive statesman admired by the world at the start of his rein--Trlsmn

Obama's great flaw: [insert Stage Whisper] Those Europeans like him better than the last guy.

Thank you El grigo loco for bringing a sense of reality into this thread.....enough said.

You are welcome.

One tired old line that the left continually regurgitates is that Hitler was a "Right-Winger." I dispute that.

With the exception of a handful of right wing talk show hosts (namely Glenn Beck) in the past few months, it is an accepted fact that Hitler was a right-winger. His statements and actions back it up. The history books back it up. An almost totality of historians back it up. And neo-nazis and current members of the Nazi party would say that they are fascist right-wingers. Sorry that dog don't hunt.

We all acknowledge that Communists are "Left-Wingers" so let's compare Communists and Nazis.

Agreed and if the original poster (noticeably absent from this debate) had said:

Okay, this is my first post. What I'm wondering is, does anyone else out there see the comparisons between our new president and Josef Stalin?

I would have had to acknowledge that he at least started out on the right side of the 50 yard line. I would have to say that the original poster was, perhaps, exaggerating the situation for an editorial effect.

Both were totalitarian goverments.
Both built huge militarys.
Both invaded and subjugated other countries.
Both were brutal and repressive.
Both wanted to conquor the world.
The Nazis hated Jews but so did the Communists. Have you never heard of the POGROMS in Russia?
Although you constantly hear about the number of deaths Hitler caused, that number pales into a small amount compared to the Communists' massive body count. According to the Guiness book of records, the Communists slaughtered more than 50 MILLION people when they took over China. Guiness says that this is the largest mass slaughter of human beings in recorded history. (I have mentioned this fact to leftists that I know and they say something like "Oh, well! It was their own people!" That makes it right? A side note is that this horrendous crime occured AFTER the United Nations was formed to prevent the reoccurrence of such a disaster.)
So, don't tell me that the Communists are better than the Nazis. I think the difference between these two evil entities is the same as the difference between a violin and a fiddle. They are BOTH LEFT WINGERS!!!

I am not defending communists and would say that Stalin took runner-up for the worst human ever award. I would resist the urge to confuse methodology with ideology. The Communists and Fascists did many things the same way, but they were with different goals and based on different philosophies. Christians and Muslims both engage in prayer (similar methodology) but for different reasons with different goals (ideology).

American policy has thus far been friendly towards Israel, but Obama could hardly be considered a friend outside of that.

If his policy and his stated positions (and those of his Secretary of State) are friendly of Israel, explain what (other than his middle name) leads you to believe he is not a friend of Israel. Conspiracy theories about him speaking in code don't count.

Now, contrary to what most liberal/progressive Democrats believe,...
BI-PARTISANSHIP IS NOT GETTING CONSERVATIVES TO GIVE UP THEIR IDEALS! I know you and Mrs. Pelosi would like to see that, but it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!

I don't think most Progressives believe BI-PARTISANSHIP IS NOT GETTING CONSERVATIVES TO GIVE UP THEIR IDEALS! I think most Progressives are sick of Obama's attempts to garner a few Republican votes. Speaker Pelosi is a partisan-unapologetically-and I don't think she thinks that is going to happen. The President is the only one with his head in the clouds on this one.

Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or National Socialist German Workers Party. Proletariat labor advocate all the way,...

Yeah, and the United Soviet Socialist Republic and Peoples Republic of China are true Republics. It's called branding. None of Hitler's policies were pro-labor. This is kind of how the Republicans claim to represent the average Joe and then cut the minimum wage or nullify a labor law or try to eliminate Social security OR how they try to eliminate medicare for years and then re-brand themselves as the staunch defenders of the program......Politics ain't that different now as it was then. Say one thing do another.

Adolf Hitler Timeline

This left out the part where Hitler eliminates the legislative branch of government to accomplish his goals. Compare that to Obama who has abdicated way too much responsibility to Congress and, thus, allowed his opponents to dictate the terms of the debate.

Unfortunately Obama is just as bad. All of those violations you talk about... are policies that are being carried out by Obama as we speak. Not to mention other policies that he has not changed. Barack OBush is no different than any other politician, he just talks a good game but does he really intend to follow through?

I want to see Obama succeed on a lot of issues. Others I disagree with him. Thus far, he has been too slow to enact changes from the Bush administration that I found abhorrent (Gitmo, etc.). But the silver lining in the whole healthcare cloud, is that I know that he does not have it in him to shove any gun control bills down congress' throat. The support for healthcare reform is FARRRRR greater than for any Assault Weapons Ban and it has caused him to expend almost all of his political capital on the one issue.

 

[RobertJ.]

Hey all, I've been away from the computer for a couple days, I but thank you all for your input.

In my post , I should have clarified a little better. I don't think we can compare O. to Hitler just yet, but his rise to power is clearly similar.

I read several interesting remarks, the first wondering about Hitler's genocide, and where is O's, if we're comparing. Well, how about his approval and endorsement for the slaughter of the unborn? How many a day? Between 3700 and 4000. But we've always had that, you might say, even under Republican presidents. But O. wants them federally funded.

The second really interesting one was that O. is a friend of Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth. O. is a Muslim. He thinks is a friend of the Muslims. He's making the same mistakes Carter made. The Muslim world will never respect him, even with his bullying of Israel.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but with O.'s falling ratings I think that he will declare martial law before the next election. Everything is being put into place.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Hey crazy white guy? You need to take off the rose colored glasses you see the president and your party through and get a real look at real life, the real people behind the curtain and develop a realistic view of who's running the country.

I think most Progressives are sick of Obama's attempts to garner a few Republican votes.

There are a lot of things you could have said to further relations with people on the other side of the debate,...
That was the opposing one.
Now we KNOW you are all for "the Obama way or the highway" stance. You have bought into his dictatorship agenda.

And as for Hitler, he hated democrats and democracies. But that's not the same as the party you are thinking of. Democrats in Germany during the '30s were advocating for a democratic fatherland.
He was a labor backed lefty all the way. Stand for the little guy, and hold him up to be superior.
That's how he got where he did.
Progressives?!? More like re-gressives.