Man with gun, arrested, then exonerated.

Garg · Dec 9, 2014

<broken link removed>

Discuss.

My thought on it is that he picked a fight, then pulled his weapon.

The Heretic · Dec 10, 2014

It sounds like it went down as described, but that unless the teens had harmed someone stealing a case of beer, he should have left them alone. The theft was not serious enough to warrant intervening in my opinion.

This is similar to something I saw happen when I was in the USCG; one of my shipmates intervened between a boy being physically abusive to his girlfriend, was about to get into a fight with the teen, handed his weapon to a shipmate to keep in case it was lost in the fight.

At that point, the teen saw his chance to back out with an excuse, and at the same time cause my shipmate some harm, so he called the police and claimed my shipmate was brandishing the firearm.

I hate to say that people shouldn't get involved, and when it escalates to a certain point they should, but until that point they should just call the police and let them handle it. It is always best to be the person to call the police first, and despite the recent spate of bad cop behavior, most LEOs are good LEOs doing their job to the best of their abilities.

The police are usually given the benefit of the doubt in such situations, sometimes even when they shouldn't be (as evidenced all too often recently), whereas private citizens often are not (and police, prosecutors and judges don't like citizens stepping into what they consider is their private domain).

Teenagers, especially criminals, are well aware of the social context today, and will claim to be the injured party at every turn - they know how to do it all too well.

balaperdida · Dec 10, 2014

The report in the link seems to indicate that Hall was inside his car retrieving his handgun when the thugs attacked it. Otherwise, how could he have retrieved his handgun from the glovebox? The Heretic is absolutely correct, teenagers will use social media. They will lie without reservation to protect their pack. MDA tactics are spreading.

AMT · Dec 10, 2014

balaperdida said:
The report in the link seems to indicate that Hall was inside his car retrieving his handgun when the thugs attacked it. Otherwise, how could he have retrieved his handgun from the glovebox? The Heretic is absolutely correct, teenagers will use social media. They will lie without reservation to protect their pack. MDA tactics are spreading.

I read it that way too. He may have been outside his vehicle and said something to someone. THEN got in his vehicle, before or after he saw people coming at him with a hammer. Given what is written, I think I may have unholstered too.

Mark W. · Dec 10, 2014

The report on KOIN last night said the DA was bringing Misdemeanor charges connected with the display of the handgun. So he's not out of the woods yet.

Garg · Dec 10, 2014

I my opinion, he inserted himself into a situation that he had no business dealing with what so ever, then when it got uncomfortable for him, he pulled out his gun.
There was no threat to him, or anyone else, until he intervened. His best choice would have been to call the police, rather than what he did, and stay out of it. Now that he did what he did, he is suffering consequences. I guess I am saying he acted wrongly, and I really don't have any sympathy for him.
I only bring this up because I think it may be a learning moment for concealed carry people.

Member 5605 · Dec 10, 2014

If they are doing a smash and grab.... let em run. Take description to give if need be, but stores have cameras that catch what we don't (or sometimes we give a better description that the crappy cameras)

Holding somebody at gun/knifepoint and robbing a store is an entirely different can of worms.

spectra · Dec 10, 2014

^^^^^^^^^ To Garg

I agree why do you think people get fired for chasing after shop lifters???? ?Unless your life or someone else is in in harms way just stay out of it PERIOD!

From the sounds of it he thought he was doing the right thing but look at what that has gotten him.....

WasrNwarpaint · Dec 10, 2014

fail.....

why would you put your self in harms way over a bag of chips or what ever they were ripping off.
he didnt know if the smash & grabbers had a guns or not & his pulling a gun without shooting could have gotten him killed.
no one was in any danger & as others pointed out, write down the info.....and call the cops,
your ccp or open carry is for personal protection when in eminent danger, fear for your life

The Heretic · Dec 10, 2014

WasrNwarpaint said:
your ccp or open carry is for personal protection when in eminent danger, fear for your life

Or the life of someone else.

And not for playing cops and robbers.

In some locales you can use lethal force to stop certain felonies, but I am thinking this wasn't one of them, even by LEO standards (which lately seem to be getting pretty loose) - at least when I was a LEO (federal, in the USCG) we were taught to only use lethal force when someone's life was in danger or we could say that it was probable that someone's life would be in danger (e.g., an felon escaping from serious assault or murder scene - not some kid ripping off a case of beer).

I often say criminals are generally stupid, but in some ways they also know how to manipulate the system, what they can and can't get away with.