Man shot by Edmonds police for open carrying a rifle

[Ligito]

I say make it a profession with educational standards nearly that of a doctor and having to pass incredibly invasive psychological tests and background checks rivaling that of a CIA trainee. After a 'basic training' similar to Marine Corps then they go to Police Academy. If they pass all this then lets pay them a salary commensurate with all they went through. My point is lets RAISE the bar, and not lower it.

The CIA does Psych testing?

 

[chariot13]

Is it remotely possible to ask that you stay in the context of the thread and not segue in into something not related to the thread? We are discussing the Edmonds, WA situation and nothing else.

The shooting of the two Asian ladies that had not and were not breaking any laws, has everything to do with this Edmonds case of a man also being shot by police while he had not and was not breaking any laws. If he did break any laws they would of at least made some up by now. This story and any other story that fits in the category of police or some other implied authoritarian abusing the people because they can, are all related and tied to the same government whether it goes by a sub-label of federal, state or local.

 

[Ligito]

What possible order could they give him that he has to comply with? There's no probable cause to believe a crime has been, or is being committed. They cannot legally require that he show ID or state his name. They can't detain him, or search him. Do the police magically get to decide what the citizen must do or be shot?

Now, if the citizen pointed a rifle at them, or fired it, then the police have probable cause and can ID and detain him. In that case they can issue orders. But as long as no crime has been committed they can only REQUEST cooperation. Failure to comply with their REQUEST is not probable cause.

Are you the next target?

 

[Ligito]

Sure are a whole lot of self made authorities on here.

 

[RVTECH]

The shooting of the two Asian ladies that had not and were not breaking any laws, has everything to do with this Edmonds case

Then go out and investigate it on your own and report back with your results. Until then stay safe and don't do anything to get yourself hurt.

 

[Kable]

And he may NOT have been doing anything illegal - but HE is the one who is SHOT and SUFFERING - is there anything difficult to understand here? For Crying out loud HE DID NOT COMPLY and got shot! Go pitch yer bee-yotch to the Edmonds PD and tell us how that works out.

Yeah your post is hard to understand. In the first part it sounds like you are defending the guy then it seems like you are condemning him. All I was trying to say was that there are still no additional facts but they haven't charged him with a crime. To me that's just more evidence he didn't break any laws (again pure speculation). I've seen plenty of stories where someone was shot by police during the commission of a crime and they say the suspect is being charged with x. There is still not a reference to any pending charges. Now with all that said if the guy was pointing the rifle and not just carrying it slung over his shoulder and refused police instructions then it was a justified shoot, as long as they gave him enough time to comply with their demands. However, if he had it slung over his shoulder and they tried to tell him to drop it and he tried to tell them he wasn't breaking any laws (like we've seen in plenty of open carry videos on youtube) and then they got trigger happy then the police are in the wrong and should have the crap sued out of them at the very least. We've all seen how the police in this area give commands but no time to comply (wood carver shooting)

 

[saxon]

as long as police are worth more and we are worth less, it is us who go to jail or shall be shot, and not the police

 

[Redcap]

as long as police are worth more and we are worth less, it is us who go to jail or shall be shot, and not the police

That needs to change.

 

[RVTECH]

We've all seen how the police in this area give commands but no time to comply

Glad I don't live in 'this area'

 

[saxon]

Did everyone forget the law Pres Clinton signed about no firearms allowed within 1,000' of a school?

guess you should read up on the ORS for that then huh? or any one who had a gun in thier house was automaticly a criminal if they lived within 1,000 feet???

 

[Grunwald]

The shooting of the two Asian ladies that had not and were not breaking any laws, has everything to do with this Edmonds case

Then go out and investigate it on your own and report back with your results. Until then stay safe and don't do anything to get yourself hurt.

What crawled up your tail pipe and died?
And who made you the topic police?
The other case has everything to do with this one as does the Seattle wood-carver one as they are all example of police shooting people with impunity.
Some of us look at the bigger picture.

 

[notazombie]

...or any one who had a gun in thier house was automaticly a criminal if they lived within 1,000 feet???

If I owned any guns that would make me an automatic criminal. I can literally throw a rock from my back yard and hit a school. There are 5 others, that I can think of, within a 1/2 mile of me. Pretty hard to not be "near" a school anymore unless you live in a rural setting.

"Near a school", "officer felt threatened", "suspect did not comply" -- all semantics.

 

[Brutus57]

How do we know it was a lawful arrest? It was 7:30AM on a SATURDAY morning, no school.... maybe soccer games on the play field, alright, I get that. Too many details left out we need to find out...and the bottom line most people believe the "cops are always right." They have two witnesses and the shooter is by himself. If he copped and attitude then they probably felt justified. Too bad he didn't turn his iPhone on and record it. Let's hope he didn't take a bullet just standing up for open carry.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. They have plenty of time to get their side of the story together while he mends before they arrest him, if indeed they do. Or he could have been a psychopath and he got stopped.

Brutus Out

 

[Redcap]

How do we know it was a lawful arrest? It was 7:30AM on a SATURDAY morning, no school.... maybe soccer games on the play field, alright, I get that. Too many details left out we need to find out...and the bottom line most people believe the "cops are always right." They have two witnesses and the shooter is by himself. If he copped and attitude then they probably felt justified. Too bad he didn't turn his iPhone on and record it. Let's hope he didn't take a bullet just standing up for open carry.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. They have plenty of time to get their side of the story together while he mends before they arrest him, if indeed they do. Or he could have been a psychopath and he got stopped.

Brutus Out

Don't worry, the pigs will concoct some sort of awesome lie to cover their asses and the rest of them will go along with it. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Have warned you people that the cops in this state do not respect our open carry rights..

 

[Stevenav]

agreed that he could be a psychopath... and lets hope that's the case.... that the police did stop a criminal act in the making.

But what if he DID just get shot for standing up for open carry. Then in that case I say "GOOD" because if he did, then he just had his civil liberties violated and maybe he'll have the guts to step into court and force the issue and demand the courts take punitive action against the police. Maybe having a few people stand up for their rights and showing they're willing to take a bullet for their beliefs are precisely what is needed. That sort of dedication is precisely what we need today... dedication that can force change.

 

[The B]

I can be justifiably shot, when not committing a crime, because of the police officer's perspective?

A "non-cop" who shoots someone who is not a direct threat to them, is probably going away to prison.

I will agree that we don't know any of the specifics in this case, but what I'm surprised by is that you and several others here still find ways to make excuses for what currently looks like a man who was shot for simply carrying a rifle. No mention if he aimed it at a cop, or even threatened the cop at all. He just apparently got shot because he didn't do what the cop told him to do - if he even heard the cop at all?

Doesn't take a very long stretch to apply this sort of logic to anyone who might be shot while open carrying.

I'm not going to reread the whole thread to see if anyone else is making "excuses," but we're ALL talking hypotheticals based on the almost zero information we have here, including me. No excuses for anyone. But we can't always default against cops- they're not ALWAYS wrong. There ARE criminals out there, and SOMETIMES they DO need to be shot. I'm laying a case for the fact that, at this point, it's entirely possible there was no criminal wrongdoing- on the cops side, or the victims.

 

[Brutus57]

Sorry, but cops are trained and paid to be right every time, especially with deadly force. I don't think anyone really beats up cops on this forum all the time as gun happy thugs. However, there are more and more of these questionable or possibly questionable shootings, not just in the NW but all over the country. I don't give a hoot about the criminals that lose a gunfight with cops. But it is concerning when little old ladies and little ol men get swiss cheesed by Glocks and the cops pulling the triggers never go to jail. (All appropriate departmental standards were followed to quote the company line) Heck look at the Seattle cop that should have been fired but got off the hook with losing some pay and having to be retrained. Who needs to be retrained about excessive force after 20 years????
What this sort of thing says to Joe average citizen like me is many police departments do not respect the rights of citizens anymore. At least county sheriffs are elected and we have some say in the process.
There is a pattern that has developed and its pretty obvious, its called militarization of the constabulary.
Brutus Out.

 

[RoneKiln]

"I'm in the crosswalk and the light is in my favor! I don't have to get out of the way you stupid big truck! I HAVE RIGHT OF WAY!" *SPLAT*

We have the right to open carry. The police do not have the legal authority to harass us without reasonable cause to believe we're up to something illegal. Arguing with two guys pointing guns at you is stupid no matter what your rights are. Even if his goal was to stand up for his rights, there are far more effective means to raise awareness and educate the world of our rights and beliefs.

This just ended up sucking for everyone involved no matter what the details are. The man shot, both officers, and the families of all three lost. Any good that could come of this would be minor compared to the damage done.

 

[The B]

Sorry, but cops are trained and paid to be right every time, especially with deadly force. I don't think anyone really beats up cops on this forum all the time as gun happy thugs. However, there are more and more of these questionable or possibly questionable shootings, not just in the NW but all over the country. I don't give a hoot about the criminals that lose a gunfight with cops. But it is concerning when little old ladies and little ol men get swiss cheesed by Glocks and the cops pulling the triggers never go to jail. (All appropriate departmental standards were followed to quote the company line) Heck look at the Seattle cop that should have been fired but got off the hook with losing some pay and having to be retrained. Who needs to be retrained about excessive force after 20 years????
What this sort of thing says to Joe average citizen like me is many police departments do not respect the rights of citizens anymore. At least county sheriffs are elected and we have some say in the process.
There is a pattern that has developed and its pretty obvious, its called militarization of the constabulary.
Brutus Out.

Not arguing with that. I agree.