Man shot by Edmonds police for open carrying a rifle

[Grunwald]

Really that's the best the best "if" scenario u can come up with? If I was open carrying a rifle by a school and the cops roll up, I would do my best to comply with their instructions and work towards defusing the situation so I can be on my way.

Would you drop your pristine condition $1500 rifle if ordered to do so?
Now, remember that for a lot of these cops putting it down gently is not fast enough.
Let's not forget the possibility of it being kicked away from you upon approach - can't be within your reach for ocifer's safety.

Did not this happen on Saturday? School would have been closed.
I have to wonder if this went down like the shooting of the woodcarver in Seattle. Need to see the dashcam video.

 

[Mark W.]

The rifle being shown shouldered by a police officer in tan clothing appears to be more like a Remington 572 pump or 552 semi auto .22. It does not look like any kind of an "assault rifle".

 

[Redcap]

I know more than a few people that do not respond well to commands.

 

[Stomper]

Definitely not an "assault" rifle, so at least the ninnie-antis won't get much billboard traction. They are going to mess their pants if the guy was on his way for some sort of small game hunting or something along those lines, but on the other hand he may have been "on a mission".

It'll be interesting to get the rest of he facts.

 

[Brutus57]

ANybody note that school's out on Saturday? Also some anti immediately posted on the Newspaper website that it "was definitely an assault rifle and that Governor Inslee should pass an AW Ban.

Brutus Out

 

[RVTECH]

Refusing to obey a police officer is not a capital offense....yet.

And it may not be but if you get shot because of it it's kind of hard to second guess your position on 'compliance'.

 

[The B]

A witness in the KING5 video said he thought he heard the rifle shot first. The rifle in the vid does not look like an AR.
<broken link removed>

Looks like a tube-fed .22, to me.

EDIT - Oh, I see that's been covered. Looks like I was still on page one....

 

[Adam12]

It's funny seeing both sides of this deal. Neither having any true information, simply a few statements and MUCH conjecture. Intelligent people will wait for more facts.

 

[pdx225]

Yep let's just bow down to the whims of the state security goons for their illegal harassment of a peaceful citizen going about his own business. God forbid these cops have the common decency to leave people alone instead of deliberately creating confrontations by obeying the unconstitutional diktats of their political masters.

Look ur frustrated, we all are, but there are smart ways to respond to situations and there are others that only escalate them. The cops are just doing their jobs (a tough one at that) and following what's on the books. If you have a problem with that then there are other means to remedy your frustration.

 

[dmancornell]

Look ur frustrated, we all are, but there are smart ways to respond to situations and there are others that only escalate them. The cops are just doing their jobs (a tough one at that) and following what's on the books. If you have a problem with that then there are other means to remedy your frustration.

Yeah, just like the SS were just doing their tough jobs and following what's on the books. You know when Stalin ordered the NKVD to purge the Ukrainian kulaks, even though the victims were fighting back with shovels and picks, the NKVD men suffered so much attrition from mental breakdowns they had to be issued alcohol and drugs to keep them working?

The real way to fix the situation is to make the policing profession one that is despised and hated by all. Make their jobs terrible with constant resistance, and make their personal lives terrible with contempt from the whole public.

 

[The B]

It's not even fair, on a gun forum.

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hawaiian]

The police are pointing their guns at him telling him to put down his rifle, and he argues with them instead of obeying their command?
What did he expect would happen? The guy is dumber than dirt.

 

[U201491]

With the mentality of the country and after the school shootings, the guy was an idiot for pushing the envelope when people are on hair triggers already. Being within the constitution and all still can get you killed. Whole damn thing is pretty stupid. Carrying a rifle around any school where my grandkids attend would get crosshairs on your head till you left.
Dumb is just that...DUMB.
KEEP PUSHING THE ISSUE GETS THE LEFT A FULL MAGAZINE BECAUSE OF CRAP LIKE THIS.

 

[RVTECH]

The real way to fix the situation is to make the policing profession one that is despised and hated by all.

I say make it a profession with educational standards nearly that of a doctor and having to pass incredibly invasive psychological tests and background checks rivaling that of a CIA trainee. After a 'basic training' similar to Marine Corps then they go to Police Academy. If they pass all this then lets pay them a salary commensurate with all they went through. My point is lets RAISE the bar, and not lower it.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Really that's the best the best "if" scenario u can come up with? If I was open carrying a rifle by a school and the cops roll up, I would do my best to comply with their instructions and work towards defusing the situation so I can be on my way.

What possible order could they give him that he has to comply with? There's no probable cause to believe a crime has been, or is being committed. They cannot legally require that he show ID or state his name. They can't detain him, or search him. Do the police magically get to decide what the citizen must do or be shot?

Now, if the citizen pointed a rifle at them, or fired it, then the police have probable cause and can ID and detain him. In that case they can issue orders. But as long as no crime has been committed they can only REQUEST cooperation. Failure to comply with their REQUEST is not probable cause.

 

[The B]

What possible order could they give him that he has to comply with? There's no probable cause to believe a crime has been, or is being committed. They cannot legally require that he show ID or state his name. They can't detain him, or search him. Do the police magically get to decide what the citizen must do or be shot?

Now, if the citizen pointed a rifle at them, or fired it, then the police have probable cause and can ID and detain him. In that case they can issue orders. But as long as no crime has been committed they can only REQUEST cooperation.

OR if they can articulate a reasonable suspicion that a crime has, is, or is about to be committed. That's really not that hard to do. Cops don't generally do it in these open carry videos we see, because they're ON CAMERA and know their actions will be judged by people who have no law enforcement perspective... so they're on their best behavior. (Ask me if I think all cops should wear A/V recorders)

 

[The B]

Remember that "reasonable suspicion" isn't much... it's not even "probable cause." A cop could say "based on the fact that the guy was sweating, twitching, and not even acknowledging my existence, I feared he might be about to cause harm to the public." That would likely meet "reasonable suspicion" in just about any case, 911 calls and rifle or not.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Remember that "reasonable suspicion" isn't much... it's not even "probable cause." A cop could say "based on the fact that the guy was sweating, twitching, and not even acknowledging my existence, I feared he might be about to cause harm to the public." That would likely meet "reasonable suspicion" in just about any case, 911 calls and rifle or not.

So what you are saying is that the cops can shoot anyone at any time on a hunch.

 

[The B]

So what you are saying is that the cops can shoot anyone at any time on a hunch.

Anyone? If you follow my line of logic, we're talking about someone resisting lawful arrest with a deadly weapon. That's not anyone.

 

[Redcap]

Anyone? If you follow my line of logic, we're talking about someone resisting lawful arrest with a deadly weapon. That's not anyone.

I missed the part where this was a "lawful arrest".