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Pretty easy to sit on the sidelines and critique. I have several pistols that have never given me an ounce of trouble, but I've also never been in the heat of battle with someone trying to kill me. I do know Murphy raises his ugly head far more than he should, so I hope and pray if the time ever comes that I need to use a gun in a defensive situation, he's out of town or busy with someone else.
 
She shouldnt try to blame the victim for not training, he was doing HIS best at the moment. We dont know his level of previous weapons training, or even ownership if any.
Every situation is different for everyone. We can all say "he should have done XYZ..." , but not one of us have been in his place.
These scumbags wanted him and his bride dead. They weren't going to be deterred by a tactical semi auto Saiga Shotgun or grandaddy's old Colt peace maker.
Training is what we fall back on, absolutely. But adrenaline and stress will trump caliber and weapon type every time.

Skills learned in an adrenalized state of being can be replicated in an adrenalized state of being; those that are not learned that way cannot. Training makes stress and adrenalin your friend, not your enemy. Training to clear malfunctions and stay in the fight is an essential skill.

People do not rise to the occasion; they fall to their level of training.

Just how I read the account tells me that the victim's situational awareness of his environment wasn't good, and we should all learn to pay more attention to what is going on around us. Chances are that these douchebags telegraphed their intent (i.e. followed him home/waited outside his house/verified his schedule to make sure he would be there to assault or kill) and paying attention to that may have given him the edge on his home turf in making this go the other way.
 
Skills learned in an adrenalized state of being can be replicated in an adrenalized state of being; those that are not learned that way cannot. Training makes stress and adrenalin your friend, not your enemy. Training to clear malfunctions and stay in the fight is an essential skill.

People do not rise to the occasion; they fall to their level of training.

Just how I read the account tells me that the victim's situational awareness of his environment wasn't good, and we should all learn to pay more attention to what is going on around us. Chances are that these douchebags telegraphed their intent (i.e. followed him home/waited outside his house/verified his schedule to make sure he would be there to assault or kill) and paying attention to that may have given him the edge on his home turf in making this go the other way.

You can bring up adrenaline by shooting in matches, not life or death adrenaline but enough to give you moments of stress that are effective in learning control. It's like learning how to fight, you don't really know how until you fight people. Competition is a good part of learning self defense and is over looked by most as un realistic. However the adrenaline rush you get from it is worth the effort because you learn about yourself under stress.
 
I agree that we can practice in a simulated high stress / high adrenaline environment, and we can thrive in such training. But, its hard to train on a two way range ...
What I was getting at was this poor guy wasnt trained for the encounter he found himself in.
I dont blame the fellow who lost his life just trying to get through the day and be a decent citizen.
I blame the scumbags that chose to take him out, And the system that says vigilante rough justice is wrong.
 
You can bring up adrenaline by shooting in matches, not life or death adrenaline but enough to give you moments of stress that are effective in learning control. It's like learning how to fight, you don't really know how until you fight people. Competition is a good part of learning self defense and is over looked by most as un realistic. However the adrenaline rush you get from it is worth the effort because you learn about yourself under stress.

I definitely agree that training under stress helps but you never know how you will do until crap really hits the fan. I have seen plenty of folks that believe that they are trained and in a real fight get their butt kicked by a real scrapper. No matter how much you practice that right jab or those martial arts it is very different with someone swinging back in real life rather than sparring with pads on.
I have had the unfortunate experience of a gun being pointed my way and there is no way to know how you will react until it really happens. Just hope that your efforts training gets you enough muscle memory to do what you have to when your mind is completely blank...I know mine was blank aside from "take him down". Seems that was all I thought of. If you do not know how to follow up on that thought with a quick reaction then you may as well not even have a gun or waste your time learning to "fight".

I boxed all through high school but that only helped me to focus a little better and think "take him down" rather than run or panic. It is very true that getting that adrenaline can make all the difference in training yourself to react to stress. I guess getting hit in the head a lot as a kid DID help me. Pfft I knew my Mom was wrong about it being dumb of me.
 
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Well put, 40 cal.
You really dont know until you are in the situation. I practiced Krav Maga for a couple years and we did full speed full contact sparring , and that was a wake up call for what a "fight" was to me. Broken thumbs, fingers, cracked ribs - and that was sparring! Not a "real " fight.
But then I switched to more MMA style grappling and control techniques, and trained with LEOs and Martial Arts instructors that are light years more experienced in real world applications. And now I hear the stories, and see the moves of how certain techniques dont work, and how others are brutally effective.
 
You get old and you are not going to win in a fist fight. Why the gun has to work and you have to be able to hit your target. Hand to hand just ain't going to work for us old guys but a good running gun will serve us well..
 
Well put, 40 cal.
You really dont know until you are in the situation. I practiced Krav Maga for a couple years and we did full speed full contact sparring , and that was a wake up call for what a "fight" was to me. Broken thumbs, fingers, cracked ribs - and that was sparring! Not a "real " fight.
But then I switched to more MMA style grappling and control techniques, and trained with LEOs and Martial Arts instructors that are light years more experienced in real world applications. And now I hear the stories, and see the moves of how certain techniques dont work, and how others are brutally effective.

Yep there are no rules in a real fight. "That is against the rules" is a phrase you do not hear when someone wants your head! It is just survive the attack.
 
You get old and you are not going to win in a fist fight. Why the gun has to work and you have to be able to hit your target. Hand to hand just ain't going to work for us old guys but a good running gun will serve us well..

Agreed but my guess is you could hold your own in a bad situation which helped to focus with the gun. Hard to be good in any fight with no knowledge of controlling yourself and understanding how to react when your heart rate goes through the roof!
 
Most older people have all kinds of problems that they can't win a physical confrontation against a young criminal. That's why the old are targets, they break easily. The whole point of the thread is you need a gun you know is going to work, not jam on the first shot because you are weak in holding it.

To my mind being found dead with your gun stovepiped means you chose the wrong weapon to defend your family with. Far better an empty gun than a gun jammed. Like I said, it's everyone's choice...o_O
 
Most older people have all kinds of problems that they can't win a physical confrontation against a young criminal. That's why the old are targets, they break easily. The whole point of the thread is you need a gun you know is going to work, not jam on the first shot because you are weak in holding it.

To my mind being found dead with your gun stovepiped means you chose the wrong weapon to defend your family with. Far better an empty gun than a gun jammed. Like I said, it's everyone's choice...o_O

Yeah I tried limp wristing the last time I shot because of this. Quite a few of my guns but especially my Sig p230sl jammed up quickly without a firm grip. I guess I never really paid attention to how I was taught to hold it firm until i tried not doing that....Not a good idea to let happen in a fight....:(
 
Man gets beat up before he reaches his gun or wounded while it's in his hand and it may cause limp wristing jams. Guy likes to think he will get the first shot off but it's not always the case, I believe the fight will be defensive in nature. Old fashion as it seems I like a good heavy revolver that I know will run.
 

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