Machine-gun Picture Thread

[ch139]

Ok so here is a legality q, outside of states like WA that have restrictions on rounds per minute, can a person legally hold a semi auto gun and bump fire it using zero mechanical aids whatsoever (Fe. It even a belt loop)? I would think yes because of the single pull of the trigger rule?

How does this Washington rule read (I'm not at all familiar with it)?

I was not reading that correctly.

I'd imagine if a place has a rule/law on rounds/minute - anything above that number would be in violation. As far as I know, simply "bump firing" a gun with no type of assist device is not in violation of any federal law. I believe "bump stocks" were declared machineguns by the ATF.

For instance, the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club (ARPC) has rules/restrictions on when "full auto fire is allowed." This is due to their conditional use permit as has to do with noise. Bump firing "sounds" like full auto fire, so they don't want that going on. It is NOT full auto fire to be sure, but their issue is with "noise" and keeping their conditional use permit so they can keep the place open. To that end, they'll ask you to kot bump fire on non full auto days/times.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

How does this Washington rule read (I'm not at all familiar with it)?

It gives a # of rounds per minute (or maybe per second? Can't remember). So that makes binaries Fe not legal under state law. I should have bookmarked the wording. I think @Xaevian had it in cut and paste format which was very helpful on another thread.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

How does this Washington rule read (I'm not at all familiar with it)?

I was not reading that correctly.

I'd imagine if a place has a rule/law on rounds/minute - anything above that number would be in violation. As far as I know, simply "bump firing" a gun with no type of assist device is not in violation of any federal law. I believe "bump stocks" were declared machineguns by the ATF.

Yea I can't remember how it's worded. If it says "capable of x rounds per second" for example then Jerry Michulek could make a standard AR capable of that. Kind of relates to bump firing in the sense of "operator skill" being used to get x rounds/second vs some type of "mechanical aid/device" to get it. Gotta luv all this grey area legal gun reg crap (smh)...

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[ch139]

I remember the shoestring!

I understand where the ARPC is coming from - for them it has to do with noise and keeping the place open - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... I asked one time about "well, what if we were using suppressors?" Then the whole issue of "well, some people are dumber than others so we have to dumb the rules down to their level." (They still have "issues" with Bays 4 and 5 with club-sullpied steel targets - those bays are for handguns shooting handgun ammo - no PCCs, no pistols shooting rifle rounds no shotguns - I believe no "arm braces" - and still, some morons will take their AR "pistol" in there and blow holes through club steel targets - I digress). So, like most things, the rules have to be simple enough for EVERYONE to be able to follow.

We all know these laws are stupid, made by idiots who refuse to make meaningful changes, like catch and lock up the criminals. They have an anti-gun agenda and will chip away at our rights every chance they get.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Question: Standard MP5---- If you chop the barrel and SBR it and switch it to Full auto, does that require 1 stamp or two? Is the full auto stamp any different from an SBR stamp?

Asking for a friend

This has probably been answered already but I'll respond anyhow.

If the gun is a carbine length and you have it shortened to an SBR length, you need to Form 1 it.
If you're moving a registered trigger pack into the gun, that already has a stamp and in theory - as long as it's registered for the caliber of the weapon you're using it in - you should already be GTG there.
If it's already a registered machine gun (registered receiver) then....you probably need to get a stamp for the modification, but I'd call Terry Dyer or someone else who would be able to give you a more definitive.

 

[ch139]

This has probably been answered already but I'll respond anyhow.

If the gun is a carbine length and you have it shortened to an SBR length, you need to Form 1 it.
If you're moving a registered trigger pack into the gun, that already has a stamp and in theory - as long as it's registered for the caliber of the weapon you're using it in - you should already be GTG there.
If it's already a registered machine gun (registered receiver) then....you probably need to get a stamp for the modification, but I'd call Terry Dyer or someone else who would be able to give you a more definitive.

So, for that carbine, you would register it as an SBR using a Form 1, then after said Form 1 is approved, shorten it up as you specified in the Form 1.

A registered trigger pack (or registered DIAS or LL) is in-and-of-itself a "machine gun" per the ATF and transfers on a Form 4. Say you have an AR lower and build it up into a Title 1 "carbine" (or you just bought an AR at the store). You can take your registered drop-in (or LL) and put it in said carbine and now legally fire that "carbine" on automatic (provided the other parts are in the gun as well). I can not speak to the barrel length - I don't think the form 4 for a trigger pack, DIAS or LL specifies a barrel length. So now the question is, when you put that registered DIAS into your carbine from Sportsmans, can you then utilize a 10.5-inch (or whatever short barrel upper) on top of Title 1 (non SBR) lower with registered DIAS? I don't know the answer to that one. Thing is (I figure it this way anyway), if you are wanting a short machine gun, you ARE already playing the Class III game and have the juice to add a RDIAS to your collection, just register a lower as an SBR as well. I imagine this is what I'd be doing with a registered trigger pack and MP5ish gun, do the same with the AR. There's other little rabbit holes with all this too (remove tab inside Zenith/MKE gun to utilize your trigger pack is fine, but what if you remove trigger pack from said Zenith/MKE you need to weld tab back in?)

If the machine gun is a registered receiver, no need for an additional stamp (there isn't anything else to add stamp to). The ATF says you should notify them of a change like different barrel length. A letter to them with all your info and the guns info and note about what you are doing "changing the barrel length from 11.5-inches to 10.5-inches." Same thing if you're changing the barrel length on an SBR. Also a similar letter if you're moving Class III items IN THE SAME STATE (say getting the heck out of Portland and moving to La Grand). If you're really awesome and move from Oregon to a nice place like Texas you'll need "approval" on a Form 5320.20 and indicate "permanent change of address." Same form if you're just taking your Oregon machine guns to say Knob Creek for the week you'll need that approved 5320.20.

...clear as mud?"

 

[hongkong2]

View attachment 1183975

 

[CountryGent]

View attachment 1183975

 

[Andy54Hawken]

View attachment 1183977

That's 'cause its a "ghost gun"...
Andy

 

[SonicBlue03]

Ok, I'll play. In NFA Jail but I'm hopeful for a summer parole.
Not a converted -94, this one was born proper.

 

[ORhutner]

Ok, I'll play. In NFA Jail but I'm hopeful for a summer parole.
Not a converted -94, this one was born proper.

View attachment 1192297

You are a bad man posting images like that. Would like the details if you don't mind posting them. Price paid? Is it new? sure looks like it is new. I assume pre-86?

 

[SonicBlue03]

You are a bad man posting images like that. Would like the details if you don't mind posting them. Price paid? Is it new? sure looks like it is new. I assume pre-86?

She's super clean. I got it from Ruben in Dec, shipped up first of Jan. It got the Terry Dyer treatment, but miraculously didn't require upgrade - this this is about as clean/original as they come. And it does look new, even though I know it's not.

I'd have it in my hands how if Threat Dynamics ownership had stepped up and gotten into the eForms as their shop manager was trying to get them to do. Btw, Nicholas is a good kid, but F Threat Dynamics ownership. Three months to finally get it to a dealer who did the eForm.

Serial-wise, it's a low four-digit so I suspect it's a pre-. Price-wise, it was market value (in Dec) so I'm sure it's gone up since. Ruben shipped it with four Kraut 30 rounders, and I've picked up about sixteen more since.

 

[ORhutner]

She's super clean. I got it from Ruben in Dec, shipped up first of Jan. It got the Terry Dyer treatment, but miraculously didn't require upgrade - this this is about as clean/original as they come. And it does look new, even though I know it's not.

I'd have it in my hands how if Threat Dynamics ownership had stepped up and gotten into the eForms as their shop manager was trying to get them to do. Btw, Nicholas is a good kid, but F Threat Dynamics ownership. Three months to finally get it to a dealer who did the eForm.

Serial-wise, it's a low four-digit so I suspect it's a pre-. Price-wise, it was market value (in Dec) so I'm sure it's gone up since. Ruben shipped it with four Kraut 30 rounders, and I've picked up about sixteen more since.

What I like to call a fun, usable investment. You can't have the same kind of fun with stocks, bonds or Crypto! Very nice pickup.

 

[Motojohonda]

Vector v-51p

 

[Wombat of Doom]

So I have an m11 in jail, but I will take pics of the sten tonight.

 

[ScatPackLife]

Man, to hell with you guys.

(I'm not hating, just jealous )

 

[titsonritz]

So I have an m11 in jail, but I will take pics of the sten tonight.

View attachment 1245632

Did you build that from a kit?

 

[sobo]

This was from a while back...

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Did you build that from a kit?

Nope. It's all legal and well, I was 5 when the registry closed. I bought it a few years back.

I like shooting it. I need to modify the second barrel just a smidge, but I own a threaded barrel for it. It just needs to have a notch cut for the barrel indexing