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M855A1 - Greatness or Hippy Crap?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by KTM530XCW, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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  2. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    I'll take some..

    As long as the punch holes and do thier job! See no problem with them.
     
  3. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

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    I'd vote Hippy on the M855A1. The Marines have gone to a solid copper round (lead-free incidentally) but the Army is holding out for an eco "lead-free". Solid copper would have better penetration than the current jacketed rounds, IMO. But it seems the selection has been politicized to foster some eco-friendliness. Here's a link to a military news article: http://militarydailynews.com/2010/04/army-wont-field-deadlier-corps-round/


    elsie
     
  4. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  5. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    It's an interesting development, I don't know if it will be a panacea for all the "problems" the military keeps having with the standard M855 ball, however I do see it as a step in the right direction. I have a few of these on my desk I ordered as samples and need to do some testing with them, however I'm not a huge fan of sticking with the 62gr requirement the military seems to be obsessed with since the adoption of the SS109 bullet in the standard M855 ball.

    As an abstract though, I think the SOST round (which still has a lead core) will likely provide the combat effectiveness the military is looking for. However, since it still has a lead core it doesn't meet the new "green" needs of the USMIL. We need bullets that kill the bad guys with as much mess as possible. The new M855A1 seems to be a rehash of WW1 bullet designs that used a bronze/steel tip to cause expansion of the bullet, the only difference here is it's a solid copper bullet.

    I think my opinion is wait and see, if it doesn't pan out because of the "green" component, then hippy crap, if it proves itself to be a real killer in combat, then it's a winner. The limitation we're facing here is how much this ammunition is going to cost being made entirely out of copper. I would much rather see the US switch over to a steel composite bullet with a copper jacket to make it easier on the bore.
     
  6. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    More lead I say! I think they need to take the SOST round and increase the weight to around 75 grains. Screw the hippies and their eco bull. Bring back the days of pouring used motor oil down the storm grate......ok maybe thats going too far.
     
  7. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe not down the storm drain but at least on dusty dirt roads. After all, didn't the base oil come from the earth?

    As for bullets, I only care that they kill efficiently. Exactly what they were designed to do. Isn't it ironic that the Geneva Convention "outlaws" expanding bullets (hollow points, and the like) for infantry weapons but doesn't address "explosive" rounds like 20 mike mike. For that matter .50BMG does a pretty good job too.

    Shoot a "jihadist" with a "dum-dum" and your're a war criminal. Nail him with a 40mm grenade, not just killing him but removing body parts in the process, and it's perfectly OK. Go Figure.
     
  8. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    From the article, referring to M855 steel core..

    Sounds like a win to me, what is the problem? In my tests on sheet steel back in the 1980s the M855 had identical penetration to my very hard cast roundball .66 caliber 12 GA slugs..
     
  9. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    Wait wait wait....Are we talking about giving a crap what the hippies say when it comes to GUNS? Does no one else see the issue here? When I'm trying to punch big bloody holes in a screaming maniac/OPFOR target I'm certainly not worried about the environment or if he's gonna get lead poisoning.
     
  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Of course not... the hippies (most are actually communists) always bring up environmental contamination of wetlands and such that affect waterfowl. If that is true (that since they bottom feed they ingest the pellets) then we should use steel or bismuth for goose/duck hunting. War and civvy shooting is not usually done in waterfowl lands so they really don't have a serious basis for the insanity. It is truly a backdoor attempt to disarm us
     
  11. Thunderblarg

    Thunderblarg Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    Wait wait wait, I've gotta be missing something here.

    Isn't lead a natural element that's found in nature anyways? Why is this such a big deal?
     
  12. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    The eco nuts would say yes but it's down in the earth and not on the surface to contaminate wetlands and groundwater. They only have a point concerning waterfowl hunting, IMO
     
  13. marty8587

    marty8587 NE Portland Active Member

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    All this carp is going to price alot of regular Joe's out of shooting!!
     
  14. Thunderblarg

    Thunderblarg Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    ...So our military is using waterfowl for their training now, are they?

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I HATE HIPPIES

    1261995437078s.jpg
     
  15. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should start using Hippies for "training purposes". Based on the appearance of many from my school days, they don't dress much different than the Taliban, hairy faces and all.
     
  16. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I was discussing the origins of this "movement" to take lead projectiles off the market and I specifically already made your point
     
  17. FarmerTed1971

    FarmerTed1971 Portland, Oregon, United States Well-Known Member

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    Stick with copper plated steel. Solid copper bullets will get very expensive. Even our pennies are not solid copper anymore.
     
  18. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Stock way up on bullets. Way up.
     
    HotRod61 likes this.
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    So any word yet?
    It seems as accurate as military match ammo (Camp Perry), gel tests show massive and instant permanent wound channels with excellent penetration of the core and it goes through armor like crazy.