Lynnwood Library woman w/shotgun (active shooter)

[MossySeattle]

Check this out, I frequent this library on a weekly basis. I'm usually buying their "withdrawn" books at bargain basement prices.

I haven't gone there in the last few weeks because the recent NFL playoffs are on both weekend days. I feel astonished & perplexed 'cuz my mind is wheeling with the "what if…" scenario.

My thoughts:

1. If I was OUTSIDE the parking lot and in my car just hanging out (I usually scan the book I just snagged for .50 cents and smirk knowing that was an AWESOME deal.) I would've dialed 911 on my cell & possibly run across the street to the Lynnwood PD. (100 yards)

2. If I was caught INSIDE the library….well, unless she's pointing the shotgun at me I'd get the eff outta there!

3. If I was caught INSIDE the library…I'd pull the fire alarm and get the eff outta there!

4. If I was caught INSIDE the library…and she decides to shoot me…well, I'd go down fighting. How you ask...wink, wink.

What do y'all think? A lot of crazies out there. You just never know.

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[RicInOR]

Why did this jump out at me?


"Riener said. "I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist, I'm a police officer."

Riener said. "Depending on what rounds you're using, it's a gun that sprays a lot more bullets out there."

"We were hunkered down, so that if a shot was made by her there were things - lots of books around - to absorb the bullets," Riener said.


I take this to mean other than threatening the librarian ( or volunteer )"
"Officers checked to make sure the woman had no other weapons, and she was taken into custody without incident."



Good job to the officers for ending this without spraying bullets around.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

But again.. With Washington passing the background check nonsense how on earth could this have happened?!

I mean, the law is the law.. And Im quite sure the library had a no firearms policy.. So again.. How on earth could this happen?!

 

[Mark W.]

How is this an "Active Shooter" anything she never shot the shotgun she never even pointed it at anyone. She stated the purpose for the shotgun was her own defense.

Sure she's most likely Batbubblegum crazy but I don't see any thing Active or Shooter about this story.

 

[Dave Workman]

Same dilemma, different location:

Lesson from San Diego non-shooting: 'Run, hide or fight'

Tuesday morning's false alarm "active shooter" incident in San Diego underscored the new approach to how authorities, and maybe everyone else, should react if they are caught in the middle of a mass shooting, and the advice came from the Facebook page of the Naval Medical Center where the incident didn't take place: "All occupants are advised to run, hide or fight."

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[206thsense]

Good reminder to conceal carry even at the library (and I freak'n love the library...)

 

[Dave Workman]

How is this an "Active Shooter" anything she never shot the shotgun she never even pointed it at anyone. She stated the purpose for the shotgun was her own defense.

Sure she's most likely Batbubblegum crazy but I don't see any thing Active or Shooter about this story.

It wasn't.
Since I wasn't there, it's hard to say what she may or may not have actually stated.
Carrying a shotgun into a library wouldn't be my first choice

 

[David Bowman]

Outside the library? Call 911 and be a good witness. Inside the library? Shoot her repeatedly in her earhole. I failed basic and advanced mind reading, so I can't determine what her intentions are (people with shotguns in the library cannot be characterized as "gregarious"); and I am not obligated to tell anyone to "freeze" or "drop the gun" before shooting them.

The witnesses might think it is awful, but normal people don't visit the library carrying a shotgun and walking their dog into the building.

And I thought they passed a law? Because that stops this kind of stuff right?

 

[Mark W.]

Outside the library? Call 911 and be a good witness. Inside the library? Shoot her repeatedly in her earhole. I failed basic and advanced mind reading, so I can't determine what her intentions are (people with shotguns in the library cannot be characterized as "gregarious"); and I am not obligated to tell anyone to "freeze" or "drop the gun" before shooting them.

The witnesses might think it is awful, but normal people don't visit the library carrying a shotgun and walking their dog into the building.

And I thought they passed a law? Because that stops this kind of stuff right?

WOW I'm all for defending myself. But in the plan you lay out above you become the shooter and the one the cops are pointing their big guns at.

Unless the crazy lady is actually threatening you or at least someone in the Library you have no idea if she just picked up her trap gun from the gunsmith and decided to drop off a book to make sure it wasn't over due. You comment "people with shotguns in the library can not be characterized as gregarious" What are people with handguns in the library characterized as?

Pretty sure I would wait to see what the hell was going on before I started killing people.

 

[balaperdida]

Appears she was just exercising her right to bear arms.

However, it's a foregone conclusion that anyone who does so is deemed mentally ill by the cops and MSM.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

id be way more afraid of someone with a shotgun than a handgun. i feel id be more likely to be sprayed with a shotgun than shot by a handgun.

 

[kilimanjaro]

A person carrying a gun is not a threat, even if it is at the library. You can't shoot them without further cause, like them pointing the muzzle at you or some other patron.

Note the cops didn't shoot her down, either. They certainly could have, it's their job to enforce the law and protect the public, not ours. They were there and saw they could defuse the situation without shooting the person.

If open carry is cause for self-defense, then a lot of gun owners are asking for it.

 

[Brutus57]

Wow, a civilian with a shotgun in a public building surrounded by dozens of innocent bystanders miraculously survives while a guy in a cowboy hat and coat in the snow, with no apparent gun gets Swiss cheesed.....

Something to ponder.

Brutus out

 

[Provincial]

Wow, a civilian with a shotgun in a public building surrounded by dozens of innocent bystanders miraculously survives while a guy in a cowboy hat and coat in the snow, with no apparent gun gets Swiss cheesed.....

Something to ponder.

Brutus out

...an old guy in a cowboy hat...

 

[salmonriverjohn]

According to some members here posting on the shooting in Harney county, LEO's don't behave like this,,, I guess this police officer must be in the 1% category.

"I don't want to shoot somebody. If I have to I would, but I'm there to help people," Riener said. "I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist, I'm a police officer."

It's unbelievable how far some will take their distrust, up to and including tearing down others whom they disagree with. Sad really.

 

[David Bowman]

WOW I'm all for defending myself. But in the plan you lay out above you become the shooter and the one the cops are pointing their big guns at.

Unless the crazy lady is actually threatening you or at least someone in the Library you have no idea if she just picked up her trap gun from the gunsmith and decided to drop off a book to make sure it wasn't over due. You comment "people with shotguns in the library can not be characterized as gregarious" What are people with handguns in the library characterized as?

Pretty sure I would wait to see what the hell was going on before I started killing people.

When was the last time you picked up your gun from the gunsmith and carried it into anywhere in full view of everyone while doing anything?

My response isn't any different than the police officers that responded to the call, with the exceptions of telling her to drop the gun (which they are semi-obligated to do before starting the shooting) and entering the building (which I likely wouldn't do, situation dependent). They entered the building, pointed their guns at someone whose intentions they didn't know, and presented her with a choice. All I am removing in the confrontation is I am not required to give her a choice.

People in the library with any gun that they have in their hands are not people I would characterize as "gregarious." Nice people who carry a gun in a manner consistent with responsible carry have no quarrel with me. People who have a gun in their hands in places where you don't usually find them (long guns especially) are going to draw a level of scrutiny that errs on the side of protecting myself. I would act no different than if the person had a shotgun in their hands, a pistol in their hands, an RPG in their hands....

I have trained a lot of places with a lot of different officers, agencies and nations, and they have all told me that they can figure out pretty quickly that the bad guy is the one shooting into the school or holding the people at gunpoint in the library, not the one guy pointing his Glock at the person holding the shotgun. I don't fear the police pointing a gun at me, because the police officers don't materialize out of thin air the moment the shots take place, it takes time to get there, and by the time they do (in most cases) it would be all over except the clean up.

 

[David Bowman]

Wow, a civilian with a shotgun in a public building surrounded by dozens of innocent bystanders miraculously survives while a guy in a cowboy hat and coat in the snow, with no apparent gun gets Swiss cheesed.....

Something to ponder.

Brutus out

Old guy shouldn't have attempted to run down a cop after being stopped by the police and then jump out of the car and keep putting his hands inside his jacket.

Objectively speaking, armed or not; that kind of behavior in tense situations involving confrontation and ambiguity can get you killed.

 

[Mark W.]

Well you and I differ on our rules of engagement. I've had over the last 43 years had 4 opportunities to point a firearm at someone in the act of self defense. And all I have to say is I am damn glad my dad taught us boys that you have to know how many points are on the antlers before you pull the trigger. Cause if I had used your rules at the very least a High School friend pulling a really stupid joke late at night and my Brother coming home drunk one night through the decorative glass next to the front door instead of the front door would both have been dead.

 

[David Bowman]

Well you and I differ on our rules of engagement. I've had over the last 43 years had 4 opportunities to point a firearm at someone in the act of self defense. And all I have to say is I am damn glad my dad taught us boys that you have to know how many points are on the antlers before you pull the trigger. Cause if I had used your rules at the very least a High School friend pulling a really stupid joke late at night and my Brother coming home drunk one night through the decorative glass next to the front door instead of the front door would both have been dead.

Mark, I'm not talking about shooting first and asking questions later. Lady in the library ain't my sister or my girlfriend, which would get a different response. Unknown lady in the library with a shotgun in her hands talking about people that want to kill her is definitely a situation that calls for at least a presentation of deadly force, which is what the cops did.

Someone drunk coming through my windows with a crash and a bang is going to meet the dog first, then me with a flashlight and a gun. And when I recognize my brother in his favorite t-shirt and the dopey hat he wears every time he leaves the house lying there with broken glass all around him, I will tell the dog to shut up, explain how I almost shot him, check him for injuries and tell him to help nail some plywood over the hole he made so the rain doesn't come in.

The number one rule that solves this problem is to identify your target.

Now, I suppose I could draw my gun, tell her to put hers down and engage in light banter with her regarding the nature of her paranoia, but having no idea what the nature of her malfunction is, you are already behind the power curve in a quickly evolving situation with a possibly deranged person. And then when the cops get there, if you have two people with guns pointed at each other, things are libel to get a bit more sporty right quick.

People might think my call is in the gray area, or that I am bloodthirsty or murderous; but people walking around the library with shotguns in their hand muttering about people out to "get" them are going to be thought of as up to no good; regardless of if you have a badge or not; and I am not in a position to judge their mental state nor am I required to de-escalate their behavior before deciding if this person means me harm or not.

If you wait until the shooting starts, hard to get out in front on the OODA loop.

 

[41Slinger]

Mr. Bowman, if you followed through on your original posting of your actions you will be in prison. The firearm you carry can only be used in self defense, only in self defense, you must be in fear for your life. If you are in a store, a perp comes in and points his gun at the clerk, you shoot him in the back, his gun discharges and kills the clerk, you are F---ed. If you expose your firearm, you can be arrested for brandishing, lose you CCL and pay a nice fine. Be veeweee careful.