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Luger German Pistol (Help)

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by NUCLEARMJ, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. NUCLEARMJ

    NUCLEARMJ Lafayette/Hillsboro Member

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    Trying to find out some more info on this pistol and wondering if anyone on here could tell me what year it is and perhaps a value?

    It is a Gesichert and on it says Germany 7790 and is the 30cal
    I was also told it was a authentic german military issued weapon, also have origonal holster with it.

    Any help on this?
     
  2. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Without photos, I would assume (based on the Germany marking) that its a commercial export model. With the holster and assuming it has original magazines, I would place a rough value at between $700 and $1000+. Not seeing photos makes this a very inexact science...
     
  3. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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  4. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Gesichert is German for secured or made safe. You see it when the safety lever is uncovering it and therefore on. It might have a date on the top of the pistol's receiver near where the barrel starts to protrude. A manufacturers stamp should be on the top of the pistol on the toggle a bit further back. There were a lot of variations but most of the ones I have seen and my personal one have these markings.
     
  5. Searcher451

    Searcher451 Oregon Member

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  6. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Most of the "experts" I've met want nothing to do with the internet commandos.

    But you can generally get a reasonable answer. But if you go to any other sights, they're going to say the same thing. You need to post pictures of the markings. The front strap, toggle, sideplate, rear of the toggle, underside of the barrel, safety area, these would be a good start. Without that, its a WAG (wild a** guess).
     
  7. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hello, Nuke.

    In my extensive library, I have a copy of Charles Kenyon's "Lugers at Random", considered one of (if not the) Bibles on these guns. It may be a slow process, but with pictures of the markings on the gun (such as Mt. Bear properly suggested), I can walk you through what can be known (and learned by both of us) from a book. I've owned a couple Lugers, and always wanted one to hang on to, but ended up selling both.

    A starting place for pics will be the top of the gun, and the left side (where you saw the inscription designating "safe" (at the safety lever).

    Every part on a Luger is numbered, and unaltered ones will have all matching numbers. On smaller parts, just the last two digits show. One "exception" to the matching number requirement for an unaltered gun might be the number on the "sideplate" (a 1" square plate on the left side of the gun just above the trigger). Very often this number does not match: this was a commonly replaced part. A gun that has this part as matching is somewhat the exception to the rule, and a gun where this part does not match is not discounted severely in value. The legend has it that American G.I.'s removed this sideplate as a war-trophy from a fallen German soldier. To be caught with a Luger was a big risk. A sideplate was easy to conceal, and easy to transport.

    The .30 caliber is less common than the 9mm. The original holster should have a slot outside the front of the holster for an extra clip. To find a clip whose serial number matches the gun is extremely rare for obvious reasons. The holster should also have an "extraction thong" that assists the pulling of the weapon. (The soldier pulled the thong, this lifted the pistol from the very protective holster to the point where he could then grasp it with his hand.)

    Many people do not know that the Luger actually was not really a WWII firearm. The primary handgun for Germany in WWII was the later (and cheaper-made) "P-38". However, most soldiers who were in the service prior to WWII that were issued Lugers hung on to them, knowing they were a better gun. Very often, these were Officers.

    The other amazing thing about a Luger, is that absolutely no screws hold the gun together, or are required for operation. The only screw is at the bottom of the grip. All the parts cam and toggle together to hold the gun assembled, and to operate. Precision machining on even the later, cruder-finished guns (such as the "Erfurt") is nearly unparalelled in firearm manufacturing history.

    The Luger got an undeserved reputation in America after WWII as a gun that would jam or malfunction, mostly as a result of being fed ammunition that was not powerful enough (yes, NOT powerful enough) to operate the precision-made action, coupled with neglect in regular cleaning. American G.I.'s were familiar with the loosely-fitted M1911, that could be dropped in the sand on a beach, retrieved, and fire almost flawlessly. The Luger will not tolerate that level of abuse.

    Most Lugers I have shot (15-20 in my life, including a couple "artillery models") are far and above the military M1911's in the accuracy department. Fed proper ammunition, cleaned properly, I have never seen one jam. They also seem to point more naturally than the blocky M1911: almost as if one were pointing a finger of one's hand.

    Anyway, that's a bit of what I know about them. My book knows more if you want.