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Low-tec aiming aid 4 fast, automatic, and accurate aiming

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by 5shot, Feb 8, 2011.

  1. 5shot

    5shot Mill Creek, WA New Member

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    at close quarters.

    My latest video.

    YouTube - Aiming Aid For Fast, Automatic, & Accurate Aiming

    The aiming aid is patented, but individuals are welcome to add one to their personal gun/s at their own risk and expense. I have the patent, so I can say that. US 6023874

    Ditto for Police Agencies.

    AIMED Point Shooting or P&S
    A link to info on how to do that.

    .......................

    With the new flat sided mini's (S&W Bodyguard,Walther PPS, Beretta PX4, Sig P290), the device could be a big help in insuring fast, mechanical, and correct sight alignment, and fast and accurate target engagement even though the mini's are very short.

    Of course, if there are sights on the gun, and if circumstances allow for their use, the sights should be used.

    Also, if the light is bad, or the situation is a dynamic one, or if the sights are dark and the target is dressed in black and you are at close quarters, you still will have a viable SD option at your disposal.

    Consider the aiming aid to be a Sight Shooting assistant, not a device to thwart it.

    A couple of magazines and three or four targets at 15 feet +/-, can prove that to be the case.

    ....................................................

    Even the NRA, recognizes the need for shooting options in real-life violent encounters.

    In Chapter 6 - of the NRA's guide to the basics of personal protection in the home that was published in 2000, we find that "...real-life violent encounters occur at very close range, often in reduced-light conditions, and are over in a matter of seconds. One study of Police shootings in a major urban area showed that the majority of encounters took place after dark, at 3 yards or less, in less than 3 seconds, and involved the firing of an average of three shots."

    It goes on to say: "Often, either the assailant or the defender - or both - are moving rapidly during the encounter. Such conditions do not permit the careful alignment of the sights on a specific aiming point on the target."*
     
  2. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Bad idea that teaches bad shooting habits.

    1) Poor trigger control with middle finger, bad if you want to be able to shoot more than one accurate shot. Actually, it's bad for shooting even one accurate shot.
    2) Forces you into using a two-fingered grip that is bad for controlling muzzle rise. Reduces your shot recovery time and speed with which you can put follow up shots on target.
    3) Natural pointing and shooting can be easily achieved with lots of draw-and-fire dry fire practice so you always get a consistent grip and extension and by simply purchasing a gun or grips that point naturally for you.
    4) At <5yd targets in IPSC/IDPA competitions I generally do not bother focusing on the sights, my draw is consistent enough that I can trust they will be mostly lined up and the shot will be accurate enough to get in the A ring. None of this silly middle finger shooting business though.

    There is no substitute for training. I recommend lots of dry fire practice to learn on the cheap. Starting to compete in IPSC and IDPA competitions is also an excellent idea and will give you a good idea of what you have to do to achieve combat-effective hits at different ranges.
     
  3. 5shot

    5shot Mill Creek, WA New Member

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    As to accuracy for the first and each shot.

    target3.jpg

    Never had seen a target like that before, so I bought one and used it for my first 5 shots of the day. I was shooting at Mr. Orange. I usually shoot as fast as I can point-n-pull, point-n-pull, which is way faster than I can Sight Shoot. It's the fastest way I can shoot effectively.

    The grip used is a very strong 4 fingered grip that gives you a strong and level shooting platform. It is made up of the thumb and index finger which serve as a natural and strong pincer, and the ring and little fingers add to the strength and tenacity of the grip.

    It is not your "sissy" three fingered range grip where the thumb and index finger are not supposed to be acting on the frame.

    You can squeeze the beegebers out of the gun with the 4 fingered grip and all you will do is add to its stability and strength. You can make front punches, elbow smashes and use the gun, hand, and forearm as a crude battle ax.

    The method is for shooting at close quarters where is the greatest chance of one being shot and/or killed. If that is going to happen to you, there is an 80% chance that it will happen at less than 20 feet.

    So, for self defense purposes, it makes sense to learn and use P&S. It can be learned with little or no training and maintained with minimal practice. There are some cautions when using it, and common sense is required.

    It is also not a bar to using the sights, but science and studies have established that in close quarters life threat situations, you will lose your near vision ability to focus on the sights.

    If you want to shoot competitively, you may not find P&S to your liking.

    More info on P&S, and studies and stats and articles that support its use and the use of other forms of Point Shooting for self defense can be found on my site, and all for free.
     
  4. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    You should not be "squeezing the beegebers" out of the gun, hold it firmly but don't white knuckle it. Also, I have not ever seen the "three fingered range grip" before, is that something like olympic target shooters do? I recommend covering as much surface area on the grip as possible with all of your fingers making contact with the grip.

    If you hold the firearm correctly it should point naturally with no need to keep your index finger along the side of the gun and shoot with your middle finger. Take a close look at this video by Todd Jarrett. See how he gets the beavertail into the web of his hand? The firearm is in-line with his arm and points exactly where your natural pointing would go. He is also able to cover the entire surface area of the grip with both his hands as well as use his index finger to manipulate the trigger enabling him to have good trigger control.
    YouTube - Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting.

    If you read my previous post you would also realize that I am not talking about sight shooting, I am talking about how you should hold the weapon. At 15ft (5yds) in, I generally do not bother using the sights, but since I hold the firearm correctly, it points naturally and enables me to get hits in the A-ring. I do not have to do anything to mess up my accuracy or shot recovery time like using the middle finger to manipulate the trigger.

    tl;dr, it's not the pointing and shooting without the sights that I am contesting, it is the use of the middle finger to manipulate the trigger. If your pistol does not point naturally when you use your index finger to manipulate the trigger, then I posit that you are holding the firearm incorrectly. Go to some classes, learn how to hold and shoot properly.
     
  5. 5shot

    5shot Mill Creek, WA New Member

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    Per the literature, you will have a crush grip on the gun in a CQB situation. As such the gun will be torqued down and to the left, and it won't matter much which finger is on the trigger.

    The military's marksmanship grip and that of competition shooters is about the same.

    Thumb along or close to the side of the gun with no pressing against the frame, and keeping the index finger aloof so it can be used to squeeze the trigger.

    These links are to 3 no nonsense articles by Mike Rayburn who has 30+ years of experience in the law enforcement field. They provide solid background info. on and support for using Point Shooting in Close Quarters life threat situations.

    Rayburn Law Enforcement Training - policemag.com article
    Point Shooting vs. Aimed Shooting

    Rayburn Law Enforcement Training - The Liability of Point Shooting
    Liability Issues With Point Shooting

    Rayburn Law Enforcement Training - The Trigger Control Fallacy
    The Trigger Control Fallacy
     
  6. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Well whatever works for you I guess, but I still don't buy it. Many police officers are absolutely terrible at shooting too so that isn't really very convincing to me. There is a pervasive lack of proper firearms training in police departments. If officers want to be able to shoot well they have to take it into their own hands to go get some real training, and unfortunately only a few of them actually bother to do this.

    If you go to any number of defensive shooting classes I highly doubt you will ever encounter an instructor who tells you to shoot with your middle finger.
     
  7. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to agree.
    MOST of us have way more coordination with our index finger,hence better control of the trigger.
    With this you would basically have to retrain your hand to shoot.

    Don't want/need
     
  8. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Now using this to train your hand to point the gun,but still use the index finger may work.
    But the way they use it doesn't seem good to me.
     
  9. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    So how do you patent pointing a finger with the aid of a piece of paper? :laugh:
     
  10. oregonshooter

    oregonshooter AMERICA Member

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    Ah, the magic middle finger Elixir.

    I saw your stuff probably 10 years ago when I first started reading gun stuff on the internet and it still makes no sense. I mean when an idea is good it will catch on in less than 10 years, but no one who seriously shoots for competition or defense does or would use this method. Just saying....
     
  11. JRV

    JRV Vancouver,Wa Member

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    WOW. Thats all
     
  12. f3rr37

    f3rr37 Portland New Member

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    In six easy steps!
    1. Get paper
    2. Fold paper at a 90degree angle
    3. Get tactical tape
    4. Put paper along bore axis below slide
    5. Apply tactical tape to paper so it sticks to gun
    6. File a patent for tactical low-tech finger pointing device

    :)
     
  13. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    7. Profit
     
  14. zeezee

    zeezee nowheresville Member

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    Who in the heck uses their middle f'n finger to manipulate the trigger of their firearm? :bluelaugh: If so than you only are holding the weapon with two fingers and your thumb. Dumb idea.
     
  15. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    You can patent any old thing if you've got the money to waste. In my patent training the lawyer showed us actual US patents for the comb-over hair style and a machine for kicking yourself in the butt.

    For me, there's nothing natural about middle-finger trigger manipulation. Maybe it helps some people to nestle the gun deeper into the web of the hand where they should be gripping it anyway, but not in my case.
     
  16. Bunny

    Bunny Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    Tried this for the heck of it and found it pretty much useless and uncomfortable.

    really poor trigger control
    middle finger pulls to the right more
    index finger didn't actually stabilize, in fact I found it flexing and flinching with every pull or wanting to pull away from the frame completely (especially one handed)
    poor grip with 2 fingers
    ring finger flexed and bounced against the grip with every pull, and the motion was pretty much uncontrollable (especially one handed)
    hurt the carpel tunnel area of my wrist and forearm

    Maybe with A LOT of practice someone could be accurate with this method but it seems impractical and like way more work imo. Why bother.
     
  17. madderg

    madderg Salem oregon Member

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    I have always taught that close quarter was right in front of you. If you are right hander, you bring your left hand up to the attackers face in a covering motion as you draw with your right and rock your firearm just high of waist level and shot twice as you back up moving to your right.