Looks like the Tulsa Police Shooting was indeed Bad

[U8395279]

Looks like last week's officer shooting in Tulsa was indeed bad. While the man was indeed not obeying the officer's orders, the investigation determined that he was NOT reaching inside his vehicle through an open driver's window when he was shot, as the female officer had claimed in her report.

Photos showed the window to be closed, and covered with the man's blood:




In fact, in images from the helicopter video, the man appears to be drenched in his own blood. I wonder how many times she shot him?

Did this small, petite female officer simply panic, when this large black man refused to obey her? Why did she close the distance to him, and get right up so immediately near him, if she was fearful?? That just does not make any sense at all to me.

Here is a link to the police dashcam video of the shooting:

The female officer has been officially charged with manslaughter, and has been removed from all duties:

Tulsa Police Officer Arrested on Manslaughter Charges, Released on $50,000 Bond

Read More

 

[Certaindeaf]

I never really thought it was a good idea to have little old ladies in a profession where duking it out with potential berserkers was quite likely.
The more capable one is, via training and simple physical ability, the less likely one is to resort to the final option.. imo
didn't click though

 

[Goosebrown]

I only saw the helicopter footage and I could not see if he was reaching in the car or not. I thought he was but bad angle. He didn't deserve to be shot.

Why didn't he follow orders and just stop where he was and tell the cop what was happening?

From what I can see not a reason to be shot.

 

[308]

Imagine a "civilian" "persuing" a threat and using deadly force.

 

[Bushman]

They really need to raise the bar for LE. Too many trigger happy cops who taint the rest.

 

[No_Regerts]

The guy had no weapons, the windows of the vehicle were up, there was no imminent threat of loss of life or serious injury, its a bad shoot.

In some states, you cant even taze to gain compliance without an aggressive act. You can use hands on methods like counter joints or you can use pepper spray. I could see her citing size mismatch as a reason to escalate to a tazer, but not a gun.

 

[No_Regerts]

They really need to raise the bar for LE. Too many trigger happy cops who taint the rest.

Ive seen a couple scenarios. There are some officers who are what I call "box checkers". They know what a policy says and they look to check the requisite boxes to use a particular level of force. These officers frustrate me because just because you CAN doesn't mean you NEED or SHOULD use force.

The other scenario is when people start to get spooked. An officer should self evaluate if they are getting enough time off and if they are getting too high strung. Sometimes you might need help or a stress breakof some kind. I have seen people obviously scared out of their minds and really believed they were in danger when the reasonable officer woukd not.

 

[The Heretic]

I never really thought it was a good idea to have little old ladies in a profession where duking it out with potential berserkers was quite likely.
The more capable one is, via training and simple physical ability, the less likely one is to resort to the final option.. imo
didn't click though

I served with some women in the USCG at a SAR station.

Some couldn't handle the coxswain duty.

Some couldn't handle the crewman duty.

Some could kick the bubblegum of just about anybody there (and one that could was a *hot* to boot) and handle the duty too.

The same was true of some male enlisted there.

I tend to not judge someone by their XY chromosomes. If they can do the job they can do it, if not, find something else for them to do.

 

[U8395279]

I served with some women in the USCG at a SAR station.

Some couldn't handle the coxswain duty.

Some couldn't handle the crewman duty.

Some could kick the bubblegum of just about anybody there (and one that could was a *hot* to boot) and handle the duty too.

The same was true of some male enlisted there.

I tend to not judge someone by their XY chromosomes. If they can do the job they can do it, if not, find something else for them to do.

It is obvious from the video that the dead man was a very large man in both height and weight, while the female police officer looks to be quite petite and small.

Regardless of sex, why would a dramatically smaller person want to close the distance with such a much larger suspect so much?

If a taser was going to be deployed, I know that one needs to get close in order to use it. But that was not what she was doing.

If you listen to the audio from the police Helicopter, they automatically believed that the man had been tasered, when they saw him fall.

It seems to me that she made multiple mistakes in judgement.
.

 

[billdeserthills]

Police taser has a 30 foot range, that is twice what a civilian taser has

 

[Garg]

Imagine a "civilian" "persuing" a threat and using deadly force.

And not even shoot, around here that'all get ya about 21 Felony charges...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Imagine a "civilian" "persuing" a threat and using deadly force.

Yeabut what? Are deadly threats always static? no

 

[Diamondback]

Ive seen a couple scenarios. There are some officers who are what I call "box checkers". They know what a policy says and they look to check the requisite boxes to use a particular level of force. These officers frustrate me because just because you CAN doesn't mean you NEED or SHOULD use force.

Sounds almost like something from my Executive Protection days... yes, I ticked boxes, but it was always with an approach of telling them "By X, Y and Z you have given justification for ABC Force Level. Please, be smart about this, DON'T make me use it." Thankfully, the few cases that looked like they were building toward Game Day I always managed to talk down between reason and deterrence.

 

[RVTECH]

I tend to not judge someone by their XY chromosomes. If they can do the job they can do it, if not, find something else for them to do.

I agree - I was in the NG with a 5'2" fellow who I once saw take down a probably 275 lb guy (on a mat) who challenged him - my lilliputian friend was also a Pan American wrestler and was at one time the # 3 all Army record holder for the 1.5 mile run.

 

[Diamondback]

I agree - I was in the NG with a 5'2" fellow who I once saw take down a probably 275 lb guy (on a mat) who challenged him - my lilliputian friend was also a Pan American wrestler and was at one time the # 3 all Army record holder for the 1.5 mile run.

Yeah, us small guys may not be able to pick ya up and throw ya around, but at Game On we fight MEAN and we fight NASTY. *evil grin*

 

[No_Regerts]

Yeah, us small guys may not be able to pick ya up and throw ya around, but at Game On we fight MEAN and we fight NASTY. *evil grin*

Gotta fight dirty to win when you're off the mat.

 

[Diamondback]

Gotta fight dirty to win when you're off the mat.

And people wonder why I say my preferred opening salvo is to drive a 9-1/2-Wide 5.11 tactical boot into the aggressor's crotch so hard he barfs his balls...

 

[No_Regerts]

And people wonder why I say my preferred opening salvo is to drive a 9-1/2-Wide 5.11 tactical boot into the aggressor's crotch so hard he barfs his balls...

Im partial to trying to reverse the knee myself.

 

[Diamondback]

Im partial to trying to reverse the knee myself.

I suppose that goes back to the Deterrence strategy of choice against Principal/now-Ex's stalker...
"You WILL NOT get her. You might get me. In fact, I can guarantee you probably, even almost certainly will. But I can also assure you that if you're LUCKY I'll take you down with me, and even if I don't you'll spend the rest of your miserable life wishing I had. Ready to say Bye-Bye to the Little Guys?"

 

[Bushman]

The fact that the other officers did not fire their guns speaks volumes. I believe one other officer fired their taser. This lady overreacted big time.