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looking to build an ak from scratch

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by aaron possien, Jun 27, 2015.

  1. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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    Would like to talk to anyone that has or has knowledge of how to eventually would like to start an ak company in washington
     
  2. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    First off, I would look into getting your FFL license. That in itself is a huge undertaking and is a big hurdle to jump over.
     
  3. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    How many have you personally assembled at this point in time?
     
  4. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Build one (and then a manufacturing facility) from "scratch" or assemble one (or 1000000) from a parts kit? kinda extremely different but you said both.
    Good luck either way
     
  5. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    In order to manufacture this gun, you are going to need an FFL Class 7 Manufacturers License (it is Class 7, I think). You are also going to need some special tools; like a press (anywhere from 20 to 100 ton--for the rivets that hold it together) and unless you are going to buy receivers from someplace like NODAKSPUD, you will need the tools for casting or stamping those receivers as well.

    Not hard to do, or terribly expensive either; just have to invest in the tools and license.

    Good luck! :cool:
     
  6. ConcreteJungle

    ConcreteJungle Eugene Well-Known Member

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    :s0097:



    *-unsure if the OP is trolling or baiting, etc. no post count and posts up about building an AK. Not to sound too paranoid but something didn't sit right with me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
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  7. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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    So far to date I have assembled 4 ak parts kits with a friend who has all the licensing in Colorado but yes I would even like to build from the ak flat all the way through. I have most of the tools required to do so yes the licensing part I would get first because lord knows atf wants you to have it. Thanks for the input guys anyone know of any ak build parties locally I'd appreciate any help. My main concern with the building of an ak is function and not sloppiness like so many that are imported or part built here in the usa. I know rifle dynamics has a class in Nevada I think with next year's tax return I will be making a trip for further help.
     
  8. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I'm not sure there would be a market unless you were well known as a premium builder. I am not boasting here, but I have the tools to build my own and being a perfectionist, they are pretty damn good builds with the correct rivets, etc.

    A few years back guys figured it out, made the correct tools and offered them to other enthusiasts. Building is pretty easy and I'm not the kind of guy who pays someone elses husband to do what I can do, just as well, and for a fraction of the cost.

    ...just sayin'
     
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  9. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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    Totally true but most guys want to shoot not build. Also one thing being a smaller company offers is better quality control, warranties and low overhead which keeps prices down. I'm looking to build at most maybe 50 to a hundred a year once things get rolling. True the bigger companies get more sales because they have a brand but everybody has to start somewhere. I'm also looking to change aspects of the gun also I'm not trying to sell what everyone else has on the market. The only real improvements ak rifles them selves have had in last couple years is optic mounts and rails on furniture. I'm looking to change that.
     
  10. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to dissuade from following their dreams, but unless you have a name or some other way of marketing your guns, then even selling 50 to 100 might be a tall order. You are a few years late for the last paranoia run on black guns. At that point, you could have sold as many as you could have made, regardless of name recognition, regardless of quality, and likely pretty well regardless of price as well. But here we are a few years later, and you would have to have a way to convince your potential customers that they should buy your AK instead of one built by one of the seemingly endless list of other manufacturers out there. That could be a tall order.

    If you are dead set on it, then my recommendation would be to start by talking to the ATF about your 07 manufacturers license. Make sure that you start compiling a list not only of start up costs like licensing and tooling, but unit price as well. You will have a tax to be paid to the government for each gun you build as well as other fees. In the last few years (and with the advent of fly-by-night AR builders), the government has again become very interested in collecting every possible fee from manufacturers. Don't expect it to make sense.

    Once you get that information, start looking at tooling. Not the cheap tooling designed for the guy to put a few guns together at his kitchen table, but quality tooling that will need to last for years, unless you want to build it into your profit margin to replace tooling more often. Once tooling is accounted for, look at finishing. You will need some way to engrave your manufacturer number and serial number on the receiver. Then you will need a method of finishing. If you want to have any chance of success, this will need to be better than a rattle can finish. The equipment for a bake-on finish, be it cerakote or something else, isn't cheap either. Then start looking at parts. Can you get enough to meet your quota? It would be a pain if you had 50 guns sitting around because you couldn't get enough barrels or triggers to finish a batch. And what about the cost? Are your production levels enough to get a big enough discount on the parts you need to keep your costs down? Which parts are you going to manufacture yourself? Are all your guns going to be the same, or will their be options that force you to stock different receiver flats, barrels, sights, furniture, etc.

    Do you have a place that you can put your machinery? Do you own a shop? Is it zoned for commercial? If it's not, can you get a variance from the proper authority? If you have a shop in mind, does it have the infrastructure in mind to do what you want to do? Is the floor solid enough for heavy machines? Is the electricity rated enough to handle what you want to run without popping a breaker? Is there a separate room for finishing? If you are renting, is the landlord okay with what you plan on doing?

    How about insurances? Speaking from personal experience, there are not many options for people in the gun industry. Without options, those that are available aren't cheap. Sometimes landlords require to be listed on the policy as well. And what about employees? Will this be a one man shop or will you hire help? What fees and taxes do you need to pay to the government for employees? Do you have a lawyer? You'll need one. Do you have an accountant? You'll need one.

    Have you written a business plan? Do you have the money to fund this venture yourself? Do you have collateral to get a personal loan? Will you take out a second mortgage? How will you incorporate? LLC, C-Corp, S-Corp?

    Look, if you want to pursue this, then by all means do it. Follow your dreams. But do be aware that there will be a thousand little things that will pop up before you can ever actually start building a product. Most will cost money. You will get nickel and dimed to death, at least at the beginning. And honestly, you need to be prepared for the distinct possibility that your venture, whether by your actions or not, may very well fail. Are you prepared for that? Are you prepared to deal with the loss of not only the finances, but also the loss of your livelihood if you put all your eggs in this basket.

    Good luck and God bless. If you can pull this off, power to you. But don't dive in before you know how deep the water is or how fast the current is.
     
  11. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yep. Your probably a little late to the party.
     
  12. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Are you willing to give up your day job?
     
  13. P7id10T

    P7id10T Cedar Hills Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Ha Ha Ha! Never too late if you have an excellent product and a reasonable price. Getting there is another story. MountainBear has excellent advice - plan, plan and then plan some more. I cannot emphasize the importance of having an excellent CPA and attorney.

    I knew a husband/wife team, started a packaging company when the industry was on the decline (most is made overseas now). They planned, got investors, operated conservatively, focused on niche markets and quality. Very successful, very wealthy now too.

    People might have said about Facebook that it was just another in an already saturated suite of similar web portals. Heck, Zuckerberg just started it to get laid.

    There were already a ton of gun boards before NWFA. It didn't stop Joe Link.

    Keep your vision true, and best of luck to you.
     
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  14. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I meant the big rush on gun sales is petering out. By all means good luck to you though.
     
  15. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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    Thanks for the support everyone I by no means expect things to take off over night I do have a shop I plan on working out of fortunately for me I sit on a zoning commission so plus there as it is a multi use property. I do know for sure permits ffl and all others will be the most costly. The gun scare doesn't bother me bullets would always be the better alternative than gun building but the advancements Russia has been making with the ak and this fake propaganda about us being against Russia I really see a opportunity here to advance the ak. The ar15 has honestly received so much praise but so much hate from the media it's an area I'm not trying to get into BTW I do love both guns. I just hope what ideas for what I build for the ak may take off either as a gun manufacturer or maybe I may be bought for a parts or accessories dealer. The ak group as far as custom parts really lacks as well as thinking out side the box. There are a lot of good products but buying a rifle out of the box ready to go is more what I'm thinking. Yes the platform is solid from the word go but to compete with the ar15 market for one hard for two it's limited on what with today has for an ak. I just see with the price of ammo either 308,556,or 300 blackout it's just hard to bargain with prices. I will say the mutant rifle excellent outside the box thinking. That's the kind of ideas I have if it succeeds great if not and inspires someone to do better more great. I'm a gun enthusiast first and foremost so criticism or enthusiasm doesn't bother me. You can always tell me no but always be prepared for what may come. Thanks everyone again I appreciate all the e input if this does ever get off the ground I will be saving this thread so keep in contact I'd like to personally send you a free rifle off course legally. The feedback is great keep it coming.
     
  16. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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    For the previous posts yes I'd give my day job I have for a couple ventures that panned out. I really see this being another side to a gun that has a great history but trying to improve .
     
  17. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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  18. aaron possien

    aaron possien tacoma New Member

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  19. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Your two main competitors making custom AK's are Rifle Dynamics, who you mentioned taking a class from, and Krebs Customs. I have shot both company's guns and they are top notch.
    There are several other companies making excellent quality production AK's, including Arsenal. Beyond that, the Kalashnikov group is opening a U.S. Factory to get past sanctions.

    Finding a nitch in the market might be difficult, but you can make it if you can. Look at Krebs and Rifle Dynamics. Works for them.
     
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  20. Who The F R U

    Who The F R U Rainier Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Your 07 paperwork will get you a interview within 45 day's,As per Seattle ATF Director ,We fall under that lisc. district WA,OR,ID they run the show from there.
    If you have the space tools and ability they will issue a FFL to you usually within 15-45 day's.
    Arrest don't matter as long as you don't have a DV or a felony they HAVE to issue.
    After that build them up.

    BUT after 49 gun's you have to pay FET 11% on every gun sold.
    And ITAR $2250 per year just for having a 07.