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ScottInPDX

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I'm looking for suggestions for the easiest way to legally handle transfers and possession while I help a friend with his AR15 SBR build.

Our situation:
  • I'm an Oregon resident
  • Friend is a Washington resident
  • We have established a gun trust that is valid in both states to share NFA items. I am the Settlor, and we are both Responsible Persons and Co-Trustees
    • Side note: we are aware that we have to notify the ATF for NFA items to cross state lines
  • He wants to build an AR15 SBR starting with a stripped lower & upper set
  • We expect the build to take at least a couple of weeks, maybe longer depending on part sourcing and our free time
  • We want to do the build at my house where I have the tools and space
Here's my current plan:

  1. I will order the lower and accept it for myself from my FFL. It will stay at my house until the build is done.
  2. Add it to trust, register as SBR with ATF through the trust, use his address as its long-term home. Once stamp is received, engrave and notify ATF it will move between OR and WA
  3. Finish build here in OR
  4. Transfer to him through FFL
    1. I haven't been able to find a clear answer about whether this has to happen at a WA FFL for him or if it can happen in OR.
Are there any legal concerns here? Any suggestions for simplifying or shortening this process?
 

AMT

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It seems to me that you are making it too complicated.

Why not have him order and receive the lower, and 4473 as "other". At that point and time it is not considered neither pistol nor rifle.

Drive it across the lines to your house for the build. Then once it is complete have him complete the ATF forms and notifications that it is an SBR (and will be traveling across state lines), add it to the trust with his address, and have him take it home with him.

Please correct me if i am wrong....
 

Lilhigbee

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I'm not too NFA savvy, but from what I have read here in the past it is only an NFA item when it is in the altogether. If you take the short-barreled upper off the lower it is no longer an NFA item and can be treated as any other firearm. If you are concerned about transport, put a 16"-barreled upper on it and put the short-barreled upper on a pistol lower. No NFA concerns at all. Swap the parts as necessary once it gets to its NFA home.
 

ScottInPDX

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It seems to me that you are making it too complicated.

Why not have him order and receive the lower, and 4473 as "other". At that point and time it is not considered neither pistol nor rifle.

Drive it across the lines to your house for the build. Then once it is complete have him complete the ATF forms and notifications that it is an SBR (and will be traveling across state lines), add it to the trust with his address, and have him take it home with him.

Please correct me if i am wrong....

I would like to do that, but a couple of potential problems jump out at me:
  • I don't know about WA, but OR explicitly outlawed private transfers that don't go through an FFL. He can't leave the lower with me, and I would like to be able to do some of the work without him present. I don't think the firearm being "owned" by the trust bypasses Oregon's FFL transfer requirement.
  • I don't want to complete the build until SBR registration is complete. Being caught with an unregistered SBR in that small window of time is unlikely, but not something I want to risk.
I'm not too NFA savvy, but from what I have read here in the past it is only an NFA item when it is in the altogether. If you take the short-barreled upper off the lower it is no longer an NFA item and can be treated as any other firearm. If you are concerned about transport, put a 16"-barreled upper on it and put the short-barreled upper on a pistol lower. No NFA concerns at all. Swap the parts as necessary once it gets to its NFA home.

We don't have any pistol lowers to put it on, but that does give me a different idea. My SBR should be done and registered by then, so we could use that lower as a "carrier" until the build is done, then register it at the end.
 
Last Edited:

AMT

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:s0155:

I would assume that until the build is complete, nothing is considered anything. Just a bunch of parts to a project. Only when all parts are put together it is considered an SBR (or pistol.... or rifle..... or whatever the final product is).

I am learning and thanks for the insight.
 

ScottInPDX

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:s0155:

I would assume that until the build is complete, nothing is considered anything. Just a bunch of parts to a project. Only when all parts are put together it is considered an SBR (or pistol.... or rifle..... or whatever the final product is).

I am learning and thanks for the insight.

I would like for that to be the case, but there are things called "constructive intent" and "constructive posession". I don't pretend to understand them completely, but in general it's the idea that if you have access to parts that would allow you to assemble an unregistered NFA item and don't have another legal use for them, you're risking getting a BATFE boot up your bubblegum. Like if I went out and bought a 12" AR upper right now. I don't currently have a pistol lower, and the lowers I do have are non-SBR rifles, so the only possible use I could have for it is to assemble an unregistered SBR.

Some people say the fear of it is blown out of proportion, but there are enough court cases related to it that it's a gray area that I want to stay out of. I do not want to have possession of all parts required for an SBR until the registration is complete and we have the required stamps in hand.
 
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