Looking At Getting An FFL ??

[Lickskillet]

I have decided I am going to do this. My question is, is it worth it to go through one of the outfits that walks you through everything and assures you its correct the first time for their $40 fee?

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[tanzuki]

I dunno what all the in and outs are but $40 seems like a pretty small fee for guidance through a process that may be a little confusing.

 

[Stomper]

Personally speaking, I've never understood what's so difficult about filling out government forms. You read the instruction/requirement sheet that's usually formatted like a checklist, you fill out said form and submit required supporting information (and of course PAYMENT) in the format specified.

I did my Australian wife's and three kids' immigration forms myself, and YEARS before that at the ripe old age of 19 did the paperwork for my first wife (a Honduran) while stationed in Honduras, PLUS navigating all the Army paperwork on top of that.

 

[Lickskillet]

The process is very simple. Forms, instructions and phone numbers are available on the ATF website.

You will need a state business license. Your retail space will need to inspected and approved by local law enforcement, the fire marshal and a regional ATF representative. (The ATF Rep doesn't always make it a point to show up on site.)

An insurance agent can aid you in choosing the proper liability coverage and added protections from loss.

The most difficult part is the waiting... but there will be many tasks to fill your time...like contacting manufacturers and wholesalers, designing webspace, planning ways to promote your business, designing a business logo and choosing a letterhead.

Not so sure your 100% accurate. I know for a fact, you do NOT need retail space. There seems to be a myth about this. I think its Massachusetts that has some special requirement like that but in Oregon more than half the FFLs issued are a home based license. Zoning and insurance are factors. Anyways, the original question was just asking if the guided services were worth it. I will have to look in to the said requirement of state license. Have not heard this before

 

[Stomper]

I think what he meant was that you need a physical space to conduct business, not a "cyber space". Generally a dedicated space for conducting business, like a home office. You'll need that anyway if you plan to do your taxes properly.

I've read that the ATF will not approve an FFL unless it's demonstrated that you plan to be a "legitimate" business, and not just someone wanting to use an FFL as a means to add to their personal collection.

 

[Lickskillet]

I think what he meant was that you need a physical space to conduct business, not a "cyber space". Generally a dedicated space for conducting business, like a home office. You'll need that anyway if you plan to do your taxes properly.

I've read that the ATF will not approve an FFL unless it's demonstrated that you plan to be a "legitimate" business, and not just someone wanting to use an FFL as a means to add to their personal collection.

I agree. This is how I understand it as well. I own my own home on small acreage and the wife and I are looking to start a new endeavor with guns sales and concealed weapons permit instruction. We already are having classes at my place with a licensed instructor coming out and decided to do this ourselfs.. So obviously we are looking at all requirements, permits etc

 

[etrain16]

Not so sure your 100% accurate. I know for a fact, you do NOT need retail space. There seems to be a myth about this. I think its Massachusetts that has some special requirement like that but in Oregon more than half the FFLs issued are a home based license. Zoning and insurance are factors. Anyways, the original question was just asking if the guided services were worth it. I will have to look in to the said requirement of state license. Have not heard this before

So, since the license form is going to ask anyway, what is your intent for the license? Doing occasional transfers for a fee? Becoming a retail seller of guns? It might help more with the question if we know why you want to have the license. I've looked into an 01 FFL myself, for a home-based business, doing small volume stuff, but all the extra stuff that goes with it, including dealing with the local zoning agencies and getting a business license (which isn't a big deal), along with the inspections of your home, etc., really sounded like more hassle than it would have been worth. Add that to the fact that I really don't want a bunch of folks coming to my home, and that pretty much kills the deal for me.

I hold an 03 FFL myself, which wasn't difficult to get. As Stomper noted, you just need to follow the instructions on the form - it's all there for you.

If you haven't seen it, here is a link to the application you would have to submit - look it over and you'll see what's required:

https://www.atf.gov/file/61506/download

 

[Velzey]

I think what he meant was that you need a physical space to conduct business, not a "cyber space". Generally a dedicated space for conducting business, like a home office. You'll need that anyway if you plan to do your taxes properly.

I've read that the ATF will not approve an FFL unless it's demonstrated that you plan to be a "legitimate" business, and not just someone wanting to use an FFL as a means to add to their personal collection.

THis is spot on! They do give them out for folks doing just gun shows, gunsmithing, coatings etc. But the last few years they are really cracking down on the kitchen table FFL holders. If your already doing classes its sounds like you have the space to do it.


Have your business plan in place when the ATF comes over for your interview, along with your business license! Already have your business insurance in place!

During my interview the ATF agent asked me if someone helped me fill out all the paperwork..NO
He then said he asks this because if I had to have someone else fill out the forms, I should consider hiring that person to do all my FFL paperwork! He was straight forward about it! If I couldn't understand and needed help with the application, I shouldn't be an FFL holder.

 

[Stomper]

 

[Velzey]

There really isn't enough margin to justify having an FFL for personal use. Depending on volume, dealer discount is 10%-20%. In most cases, qualifying for 20%+, requires a commitment of $20,000+ in annual purchases.

These days they will not give you an FFL for personal use...Nope noway..they wanna see your plan!
Oh you want to buy and sell guns, to increase your collection? sorry denied!

 

[TOVO]

Be sure to have a business ready for the ATF. They want you to be conducting business. If you are going to apply for a home based FFL having a detached building to do business in is a plus. If you are in WA State collecting the tax for transfer is a pain to report. Good luck.

 

[etrain16]

Sorry to hijack this thread with a side question, but I have been wondering about something regarding an 01 FFL, and it may be applicable to this discussion. Since I've heard that it's a good thing if you can have a detached building for your business, which was just confirmed above, does that necessarily mean that it has to be a permanent structure? Could it apply to a trailer or storage container, for example? Assuming of course you have electricity and a place set up to actually do your business?? I have an opportunity to consider that as an option, though I would have my safe actually in my home, but would conduct transfers in the 'non permanent structure'.

Any thoughts?

 

[mjbskwim]

more than half the FFLs issued are a home based license.

I asked a guy who sold his shop out in PT Towsend why he didn't keep his FFL
He said IF you have it for your house and not a separate building,the ATF can come over and search your place to make sure it's in compliance .
So I guess it's best to have the separate building/address? so they can only search the gun shop itself?
I'd do what I could to keep the the F out of my house. Then you need to have some type of store hours for them to come check on you. Even like an hour a month.
This will be good,I'm thinking of doing this also

 

[mjbskwim]

I hold an 03 FFL myself,

Whatzthatfor? C&R?

 

[etrain16]

Whatzthatfor? C&R?

Yes, exactly. Not worth much in Oregon anymore I'm afraid

 

[mjbskwim]

So what difference is there if you want to become a pawn star? Any harder or just more local BS?
Not sure I want to deal with these types though anyway. I would just hope none of them come back

 

[etrain16]

So what difference is there if you want to become a pawn star? Any harder or just more local BS?
Not sure I want to deal with these types though anyway. I would just hope none of them come back

A pawn dealer requires an 02 FFL, basically the same as an 01. Both require you to be in business, for profit. You have to have a business license, etc., and cannot get it just for personal use. An 03 however is strictly for personal use, not for business, and only applies to C&R guns (collectibles and relics). As an 03, I still have to go through an 01 for all modern firearms.

 

[mjbskwim]

I'll tell you any easy way to actually make money and just enhance your collection,sell ammo.
Get in with Washugal or the like and get some of that on the floor.
We talked to Washugal a couple years ago and they seemed to want you to have a FFL to deal with them. One of the guys selling it at Kitsap said a business license would do,but I have heard some companies want that FFl on the wall.

 

[Velzey]

I have some news for you. The BATF can search your entire place of residence and business if you hold a FFL. They will call and make an appt!
They are not dumb..If your making the meth in the basement of your gunshop in the old bus out back..They are pretty sure there are hijinks going on in the house also!

 

[Member 5605]

Yeah, ATF schedules visits. Probably so you could verify that your paperwork is in order. Lol. Not to bust you, unless you have a guilty conscience.



As another note;
Pay attention to the storage requirements for the firearms. Have two safes. One for your stuff "personal, not for sale" and another with the business items in it. CLEARLY MARKED.