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Long Range Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by roamy, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. roamy

    roamy New Member

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    I cannot afford a Lapue (sp)
    Can I build a rifle that will reach out over a mile
    What would I buy or build??
     
  2. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    LaRue..? Or 338 Lapua?
    CAN you? Of course you can!
    Having a rifle capable of holding about MOA at a mile, really is no trick. Having a shooter capable of reloading and holding MOA to a mile is another proposition.
    I have a factory rifle(308) capable of doing that, but I have to bring my A game.
    If you want to do it with a 223, atmosphere becomes HUGE, as wind typically moves several different directions over that distance. Another key is finding a bullet that is stable crossing transonic. Bergers don't do that very well.
    The 77gr SMK will, the 175 SMK & CC and 178Amax will all cross happily.

    Here is an article from some time ago:
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php
     
  3. roamy

    roamy New Member

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    what I have heard the the 338 Lapua is the one that reaches out
     
  4. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  5. roamy

    roamy New Member

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    why that one instead of the 338 250 ????
    as you can tell i don't know a lot about this
     
  6. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but that is very apparent. First I'd recommend you spend sometime researching and a great place to start is Tibosaurus Rex's video series on YouTube called Sniper 101. He does a very good job of discussing what to look for in choosing a long range rifle and caliber. Sit down one evening when you've got a few hours to kill and go through them, the series Starts at Sniper 101 part 1 and goes to part 47 or 50 I think. It's a great place to become educated so you can make the decisions and choices on your own, using your own informed opinions.

    I come from the world of cars, and any time I started a build, be it a street rod or off road truck the is one question you have to answer before you start, what is your budget. Budget determines EVERYTHING, what you can afford to build and what you can afford to maintain. After that, for hot rods it was how much horsepower do you want and for off road trucks it was, what tire size are you running. These two thing directed your build. Likewise with firearms, you have to ask yourself what is the intended use of the rifle?

    Is it for long range shooting, if so what range maximum?
    Is if for long range shooting and hunting, if so, what game do you want to take (assuming you've got the skills to do it ethically)?
    Do you want to compete with it?
    How much are you planning to shoot it, 1000 rounds a year, 100, 10,000 or???
    Are you going to hand load or buy off the shelf ammo?
    Do you have the stuff to hand load, if no is the purchase of said equipment figured into your budget?
    Can you afford buy off the shelf ammo while you learn the skills and buy the equipment to hand load?

    Without firm answer to these questions, and I don't suggest you answer them until you've educated yourself, I can make the following suggestions IN GENERAL.

    I would stay in the .308 family of cartridges, specially the 6.5 Creedmoor or the .308 itself, simply because match ammo is relatively easy to find for a good price. As far as rifles go, you can't go wrong with a Remington 700 or a Savage. Savage tends to be a bit cheaper if you're buying new, but not as smooth as the 700's. I would say with the 700's you're less likely to have a problem with the rifle from the factory, but the way Remington is going, I just don't feel positive in saying that anymore. Don't discount other over the counter guns either, Tikka/Sako (pronounced Saw-ko not Say-ko) make very nice rifles as well, or so I've read, I've never owned one. If you have the capability and no-how or want to learn it, many things can be done at home to the Savage line of rifles including barrel swaps and bolt handle changes, with just a few specialized had tools, no machining required.

    Lastly, glass. Most rifles today will shoot very well. Even rifles like the Ruger American will shoot MOA or Sub-MOA out of the box with ease, so almost more important then your rifle choice is quality scopes. I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but there are budget scopes out there that will get you in the ball park for distance shooting, then you can save up the $1000-$3000 for a good distance scope. You'll need to research on your own for scope, as the options are just endless and depend a ton on your personal preference. Personally, when I upgrade I am planning on spending $1500-2000 and will get a Vortex FFP or something used that was made in America or Germany (Leupold, US Optics, Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender, Zeiss...)

    My own experience is as follows. I wanted a dedicated distance target rifle, but my budget was right at 800 bucks. I ended up with a Savage 10T from Cabela's (only from Cabela's). The Savage 1o T is a .308 got me a 24" heavy barrel with 5R 1:10 twist, and EGW 0 MOA scope rail, AccuStock and AccuTrigger for $599.99. I topped it with a Redfield Battlezone 3x9x42 MOA/MOA scope for $199.99. With the background check I can in just over my 800 bucks, but I've got a rifle and scope package that works well and I should be able to comfortably get out to 500-600 yards with it, and it wouldn't be impossible to go to 1000 if I wanted to and had the skills. As far as my budget from here on out, I'm looking at another maybe another 3K to get a XLR chassis for it and new glass. I'll keep the Savage barrel until I need to replace it, and then may swap it out to 6.5 Creedmoor....we'll see.

    I hope this helps.
     
  7. SmawGunner

    SmawGunner portland metro Active Member

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    savage 110 in 338 lapua will get you there at a reasonable cost. And it will make up for lack of skill too. But you still need a $3500 scope on it and more $ for mounts, bipod, bubble level, mat, bag, kestrel, ballistic calculator, etc, etc. And at $5 per shot it will bankrupt you pretty fast.

    Also where are you going to find 1 mile around here? You got to go out East of the Cascades so now your spending alot more $ just in gas.

    What about wind calls? If you cant call wind then your just wasting $ on every shot and you will be lucky to get that 338 to 1k.

    If you have some skills then you should be able to stretch out a savage 110 in 300 win mag to that distance. Those rounds are only about $1.50.
     
  8. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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    +1 on the 300 winnie. A lot of fellas get caught up in the gun rag nonsense of needing bigger, better, faster. Get proficient with the 3oo and move up from there--cheaper to shoot and you won't break the bank on one. Consider that the recoil of a 3oo is generally considered the upper end of what an average shooter can handle without any modifications--a 338 Lapua is a critter of considerably different stripes. 30 caliber bullets are plentiful and come in myriad weights to suit your needs.
    You may want to consider the 338 Ultra. It's not a Lapua, but it gets you close. A hand-loaded 338 Ultra is about on par with a factory Lapua with 250 grainers, right around 2950fps. Also consider a plain 338 winnie can get you to about 2850fps--brass is cheap and available.
     
    orygun likes this.
  9. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    I will say, I didn't notice the original quote of wanting to shoot a mile....which frankly I don't really get, but to each their own. I'll stand by my suggestion as you're not going to go out and start shooting a mile, without first firing plenty of lead down range at ranges much closer then that. The .300 Win Mag is an economical place to start.
     
    Will_Power likes this.
  10. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm a hunter, not a long range shooter, but the folks that I know that are playing, or want to be playing the long range game have one option besides the 338 Lapua. The 338 RUM. Honestly I believe that price of brass is an issue.

    I also think that DeiselScout's long worded reply is very valuable.
     
  11. Mr Smith

    Mr Smith 54 68 65 20 73 74 69 63 6b 73 Active Member

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    no .50BMG mentions? lol

    50bmg is cheaper than 338 lapua mag

    338 win mag is another option.

    300 win mag might go the distance.
     
  12. roamy

    roamy New Member

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    Thank you all - You guys are great. I have a lot to think about thanks to you all.
     
  13. EM60

    EM60 Sandy Member

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    roamy I do not see any mention of your location or shooting experience so might I suggest maybe actually going out to say Douglas Ridge Rifle Club where on thursdays they actually shoot out to 1000 yards and actually see and talk to those that shoot distance. DRRC is a private club but if you are seriously interested I can probobly get you a tour.
     
    mjbskwim, orygun and MTpockets like this.
  14. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    How does the .260 rem compare to some of the other rounds mentioned?
     
  15. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    Compare in what respect? It's in the 6.5mm family and is one of the "in" cartridges for distance target shooting. Locally it's much easier and cheaper to find 6.5 Creedmoor off the shelf then 260, but if you can get components and handloads there is no reason not to shoot it.
     
  16. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    Sorry that was kind of a broad question. I was wondering how it compared to other "similar" rounds, the .308, 6.5 creedmoor... I've been thinking about putting a 700 together and have had a few suggestions for the .260. I've heard it's a really good round.
     
  17. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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    If you're considering the the 6.5 Creedmoor you may want to look at the 6.5x284, it's got more oomph.
    However, the 260 is very similar in application to the 6.5 x284. It's when you start looking at 1000yds and beyond that the 6.5x284 makes a difference. The MPBR of a typical hunting load in the .260 is about 270 yds where the 6.5/284 at about 290 yds with a 140gr bullets. In many cases that difference is of little to zero concern. As always, handloads are going to get you better results.
     
  18. EM60

    EM60 Sandy Member

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    Another one in the 6.5 family that's always made me curious is the 6.5-06, easily made with either 270 or 06 brass either of which is readily available and comes out 200 fps faster than either the 260 or the 6.5-284. In fact if I didn't already have a 264 win it would probobly be my next build.
     
  19. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    I'd do a Google search. It's been posted on, argued over, discussed 6 ways from Sunday in way more detail by way more educated people then myself.

    Here, I did the hard work for ya! Grab a beer, whiskey or Kool-Aid and get to reading.

    https://www.google.com/#q=260+vs+6.5+creedmoor&safe=off
     
  20. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    I toss out the 6.5 SLR

    Or the 26 Nosler

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