Long Range Precision Shooting Beginning Classes/Courses

[bsa1917hunter]

Interesting choice of word; disengenuine

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: disingenuous
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious;

Based on the OP's title of the thread, the class is based on beginning precision shooting. The precision rifle class at shorter range distance covers many of the things you point out. For some odd reason, folks tend to think that precision and accuracy are treated different or mutually antagonistic, when they must go hand and hand all the way through the process.

I commend cerberus group for putting on such courses. Im sure he will go over a lot of the specifics needed for shooting long range. Maybe not the coriolis affect or Aurora borealis, but im sure it will be fun and educational. Heck, i might even sign up and ive consistently taken game past 650 yards. To the nay sayers, i shoot 100-200 yards more than anything else, but also occasionally shoot long range. I totally agree with cerberus group: you got to have the fundamentals down first and foremost. Short range precision accuracy is key to producing long range skill. Ill shoot against anyone here to prove it too.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Interesting choice of word; disengenuine

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: disingenuous
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious;

Based on the OP's title of the thread, the class is based on beginning precision shooting. The precision rifle class at shorter range distance covers many of the things you point out. For some odd reason, folks tend to think that precision and accuracy are treated different or mutually antagonistic, when they must go hand and hand all the way through the process.

A lot of guys discount flyers at close range too. Some of those same guys shoot sub 1/2 moa rifles, "when they do their part". Of course

 

[Cerberus Group]

Most good ranges or locations to shoot long distance in Oregon or Washington are going to be on the Eastern side of the two states. I have little to work with in the Willamette Valley outside of private ranges that are expensive or only offer availability limited times of the week. If anyone knows anything in central Oregon between say Bend and Madras area in 2019, I'd probably take time off to make it work.

I have a friend that regularly goes to a long range course in the Bend area, can't recall it right off...but will get the info for you.

Someone on here might know of it as well

 

[Jcon268]

I commend cerberus group for putting on such courses. Im sure he will go over a lot of the specifics needed for shooting long range. Maybe not the coriolis affect or Aurora borealis, but im sure it will be fun and educational. Heck, i might even sign up and ive consistently taken game past 650 yards. To the nay sayers, i shoot 100-200 yards more than anything else, but also occasionally shoot long range. I totally agree with cerberus group: you got to have the fundamentals down first and foremost. Short range precision accuracy is key to producing long range skill. Ill shoot against anyone here to prove it too.

I could certainly brush up on the fundamentals at the 100 to 200 yard range. To me long distance will be 500 for quite a long time. Until I can prove myself to be useful at that range I see no reason to push it farther yet.

 

[Jcon268]

Here's my rig. First time precision rifle. Was trying to accomplish this on a budget. Howa HCR in 6.5 creedmoor with 24" heavy barrel. Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x in Ken Farrell low rings on a 20 moa Talley base bedded to the action. Still waiting on timing shims to get my Dead Air muzzle brake installed. Hoping to get years of experience out of this.

 

[ferret427]

Sorry I did not mean to imply you were being dishonest or insincere. My choice of the word came from your comment as an accomplished instructor replying to a beginner's question was incomplete as to what would be needed to shoot at distance. It seemed to say 'mastery at 200 yards and you are pretty much good to go'.
What I intended in my comment was that a beginner who was looking for an introductory course in long range shooting might not be aware of the things I mentioned in my reply. I felt that your comment where a course in the fundamentals of marksmanship at 200 yards was equivalent (or nearly so) to instruction on long distance shooting did not address the many factors that must be taught before shooting at long range.
I just wanted to point that out because as a beginner, a shooter might consider themselves capable of proficiency at long distance shooting simply because they can make small groups in the bullseye at 200 yards and would be very frustrated trying anything at distance without learning everything else needed.
Of course you are correct that a beginner to precision rifle would benefit greatly by getting help in learning to master the fundamentals. Accomplished shooters often seek training in these areas to maintain a solid base upon which shooting at distance requires. As a matter of fact, I just started shooting a precision AR10 platform rifle, and would be interested in your class, as I find that I am not happy with my fundamentals shooting this rifle compared to a bolt gun.
I have read many positive reviews of the instruction you offer and apologize if I gave the impression that you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

[bbbass]

to hit your target, pretty much anything you can learn at 200 yards must have been mastered already

Sooooo, maybe a 200yd basic class to start out?

 

[ferret427]

Yep 200 to start out is good, just not as sold as an intro to long range shooting. Most schools will list requirements for introductory long range shooting as already having the fundamentals covered, as well as minimal equipment requirements, ammo requirements such as match grade or reloads with small extreme velocity spreads, applicable optics, ranging, and other gear, as well as a rifle capable of at the minimum of 1MOA accuracy. At 200 yards, pretty much all of the factors that matter at long range are negligible, where the effects at range become significant when determining hit probability.
Reading wind from muzzle to Target is arguably the biggest factor at range, but things such as corriolus (or auora borrealis, as was commented above hehe) can make a difference of hitting a Target at 1k+ or missing the target entirely depending on where you are relative to the equator and which direction you are shooting.
In Western Washington, AFAIK the longest range a person can shoot at a range without participating in a competition is 300 yards. I may be wrong, but if a public range offering 600+ yards whenever you want to shoot exists, I haven't seen it. If there is one, sign me up!!!
All of this aside, as a beginner ABSOLUTELY get training in shooting at short range, but you must understand that there are environmental, equipment, cartridge, internal and external ballistic factors that come into play when attempting to successfully hit targets at long range that go into figuring out a firing solution that will provide a shooter with the best probability of repeatible hits at long range.
If you are interested, check out the Applied Ballistics website. Brian Litz has provided a lot of free articles about long range ballistics and how they come into play at distance.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Alrighty, here's my position on the matter;

My background with long range shooting; was a trained sniper in my LE days, which was taught by the military back then. My rifle, a Remington 700 with 18" barrel. We were issued Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr, and still have my record books with every shot that was taken with that rifle.

Over the years I have found many a people talk about "fundamentals", yet after so many years of shooting have heard some say a few different things such as "I'm a seasoned shooter and am past the fundamentals." or " Oh, this class is just about the fundamentals, I'm above that basic stuff" or the like...and I cringe every time.

It doesn't matter what platform you're shooting from, standing, kneeling, squat, prone, roll over prone etc., they all require the fundamentals with every press of the trigger. People want to shoot on the move? Fundamentals move with them. They want to use some kind of funky position to shoot under or around something? Fundamentals have to be there or the shot is wasted.

So my class, Precision Rifle is based on basic sniper training. Not the deployment part, but the part that hones the skills of making precision shots. If one can drill a consistent dime at 200 yards, then the learning curve is a bit smaller when extending out to 500, 600, 1000 etc.

During sniper school, we were drilled with the fundamentals until we were able to make dime size groups consistent, and not a fluke. Then the longer range points were added in...you know...the aurora borealis thingys.

This will show what is needed and make the student confident in their marksmanship, and will touch on the "spin drift" schtuff for real long range shooting...that being out past 400 yards. This class will challenge and develop the students skills as a precision shooter, to be solid with manipulations, engagement and awareness that yields results through their experience during the class that they can build upon for their future training, i.e. long range shooting.

Some of things you mentioned in your first post do in fact apply to shorter ranges, such as rifle set up, ammo choice, firing platforms, and optics to name a few, then there's wind conditions and shot/trajectory angles...its all there.

This will be taught by myself; my partner Troy, retired Navy Seal Team 6 trained sniper, and one other who is now heading up the WA State LE sniper school.

The lesser class, Scoped Rifle will focus on the fundamental high points of precision shooting, along with equipment etc., while the Precision Rifle class will get the student more ready for precision shooting at longer ranges.

Hope this all makes sense now.

Am hoping to have 600+ yards by the end of next summer, and with the help of the adjacent land owner, over 1,000 yards...stay tuned.

 

[11Charlie]

When are you thinking of having this class @Cerberus Group

I would be very interested.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I plan on having both offered twice next year. One in May, the other in August or so. I'll be adding a tab on the website for "Precision Rifle", and as always will be posting the upcoming training as far out as I can on here. Right now I'm behind getting January and February out, but being a one man band...am doing as much as I can.

Also, I and the other instructors mentioned are not the end all to precision/long range rifle instruction. Am sure there are other instructors/schools out there and that give a different view on things. My recommendation is take a class from a few different schools/instructors as I always pick up something from every school I attend.

 

[ferret427]

Looking forward to when the classes become available. I will be sure to take time off for the classes as soon as you have some dates set.

As an aside, do you have any plans on offering courses for load development/reloading?

 

[Cerberus Group]

As an aside, do you have any plans on offering courses for load development/reloading?

I do not have any plans now or in the future for such a thing. Being retired I thought would be easy days, but the shooting school thing is doing its best to keep me buried, along with managing a local ammo factory, then there's the family thing, and...and...and Lol

Those who've been to my classes know, that I'm pretty much a one man band here. I have other instructors listed on the website, but usually do not show their ugly mugs unless I reach 6 students, with a max of 8 students in any class. Want to make sure students don't feel like they're just going through the motions etc.

Given that above, I have more than enough on my plate to add anything at this point. Already will have added classes for shotgun, low light, Womens only, and Couples.

There will also be a CCW / Legal Law class which will have an attorney present, who has both prosecuted and defended homicide cases. Students will be able get questions answered as we go through the firearms training. We'll discuss the court defensible firearms training presented and of course legal carry in the Northwest. This will be a one day class, but will offer it as a two day as well, adding in a low light portion.

So the short answer to your question...am too swamped at the moment to think of adding anything other than firearms training.

 

[ferret427]

You definitely have a lot going on lol. I like the small class sizes...
I already have my CPL, but sitting in on a class with an attorney up to date on the current legal situation sounds interesting too.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Precision Rifle class has been added. There are 2 one day classes, June 22 and 23 2019. 200.00

Controlled Process Shooting
Precision Rifle Course

Have you ever rushed a shot with your rifle? Can you predict your own future in shot control for your next precision shot? If you fire a perfectly controlled shot with your rifle, do you have the blueprint for that shot so you can repeat it, every time...under stress?

This one day ShotIQ Precision Rifle Course delivers proprietary information on the science of the controlled shot. This course is about the mental side of precision shooting. The student will learn what decisions need to be made in every precision shot, specifically when to make those decisions, and scientifically how to carry those decisions out.

This course was built from a lifetime of precision shooting failures and successes. Researching the difference between those successes and failures is what led to the science of Controlled Process Shooting.

Your mind was built to keep you safe and protect you from recoil. Unless you know how to consciously defy human nature, you may be practicing your own failure in high stress precision shooting events. Do not be the victim of your own mind, gain the knowledge to reach your accuracy potential.

This course will cover proprietary information and drills including:
• Controlled Process Shooting with the Precision Rifle
• Controlled Process Shooting with the Pistol
• Open and Closed Loop Control Systems
• Environmental Evaluation
• Visual Proprioception and the Science of Aiming
• Shot Control with Positional Shooting
• Equipment Evaluation

PRECISION RIFLE

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Alrighty, here's my position on the matter;

My background with long range shooting; was a trained sniper in my LE days, which was taught by the military back then. My rifle, a Remington 700 with 18" barrel. We were issued Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr, and still have my record books with every shot that was taken with that rifle.

Over the years I have found many a people talk about "fundamentals", yet after so many years of shooting have heard some say a few different things such as "I'm a seasoned shooter and am past the fundamentals." or " Oh, this class is just about the fundamentals, I'm above that basic stuff" or the like...and I cringe every time.

It doesn't matter what platform you're shooting from, standing, kneeling, squat, prone, roll over prone etc., they all require the fundamentals with every press of the trigger. People want to shoot on the move? Fundamentals move with them. They want to use some kind of funky position to shoot under or around something? Fundamentals have to be there or the shot is wasted.

So my class, Precision Rifle is based on basic sniper training. Not the deployment part, but the part that hones the skills of making precision shots. If one can drill a consistent dime at 200 yards, then the learning curve is a bit smaller when extending out to 500, 600, 1000 etc.

During sniper school, we were drilled with the fundamentals until we were able to make dime size groups consistent, and not a fluke. Then the longer range points were added in...you know...the aurora borealis thingys.

This will show what is needed and make the student confident in their marksmanship, and will touch on the "spin drift" schtuff for real long range shooting...that being out past 400 yards. This class will challenge and develop the students skills as a precision shooter, to be solid with manipulations, engagement and awareness that yields results through their experience during the class that they can build upon for their future training, i.e. long range shooting.

Some of things you mentioned in your first post do in fact apply to shorter ranges, such as rifle set up, ammo choice, firing platforms, and optics to name a few, then there's wind conditions and shot/trajectory angles...its all there.

This will be taught by myself; my partner Troy, retired Navy Seal Team 6 trained sniper, and one other who is now heading up the WA State LE sniper school.

The lesser class, Scoped Rifle will focus on the fundamental high points of precision shooting, along with equipment etc., while the Precision Rifle class will get the student more ready for precision shooting at longer ranges.

Hope this all makes sense now.

Am hoping to have 600+ yards by the end of next summer, and with the help of the adjacent land owner, over 1,000 yards...stay tuned.

Sounds cool. Are your sniper buddies going to start the class off with a few groups to show them how it's done? I'd like to see what a real shooter is capable of. If it's all fluff, that's when I'd say ok, see ya...

 

[Kruel J]

Sounds cool. Are your sniper buddies going to start the class off with a few groups to show them how it's done? I'd like to see what a real shooter is capable of. If it's all fluff, that's when I'd say ok, see ya...

For those of us that can't shoot for sh!t, this may come in handy.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Sounds cool. Are your sniper buddies going to start the class off with a few groups to show them how it's done? I'd like to see what a real shooter is capable of. If it's all fluff, that's when I'd say ok, see ya...

It's going to be so fluffy, you'd fall asleep in its comfort!

 

[ron]

I have a friend that regularly goes to a long range course in the Bend area, can't recall it right off...but will get the info for you.

Someone on here might know of it as well

COSSA 1000 yard range Central Oregon Shooting Sports Association (COSSA) | Together we make it great
DRRC 1000 yard range Douglas Ridge Rifle Club - High Power Rifle
Already mentioned TCGC 600 yard. Firing line is under cover.

 

[zenbreath]

We shoot 600 yards at TCGC most tuesdays. There are a lot of people that will help you and they even do an advanced reloading class of you want it

Message me if you'd like to come trybit out.

Echoing Goosebrown.
TCGC also does 600 yard competition on the third Saturdays. If you have good data for 300 yards, someone will help you get on target at 600. If you can put 9 out of 10 on a paper plate at 300 yards, you should be ok to get started.

They are great people and very helpful.