I agree with NoOne. At the Central Oregon Sniper Match last spring the best shooters were the ones with the best fundamental marksmanship skills. You would be better off with a good rifle and optics not necessarily the best most expensive stuff. Then use the money you saved on ammo and lots of practice.
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Long Distance Competition
- Thread Starter GrpCapMandrake
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The Remington 700 PSS, or the Savage equivalent, a Leupold 3.5-10x40 mark 4 (around $650) and a Harris bi-pod will do everything someone in the initial couple of years of learning needs. After you wear out the Savage or PSS rifle's barrel by practicing, you will probably have learned enough to justify spending more money on a tricked out rifle.
Some basic coaching can eliminate many of the common mistakes that have to be unlearned. Fortunately, there are lots of people willing to coach a motivated person for free. You find those willing to coach at various shooting events. When they realize you are just being honest, straight-forward, and asking for help, lots of fellows really enjoy coaching. A good coach learns from the student too.
Some basic coaching can eliminate many of the common mistakes that have to be unlearned. Fortunately, there are lots of people willing to coach a motivated person for free. You find those willing to coach at various shooting events. When they realize you are just being honest, straight-forward, and asking for help, lots of fellows really enjoy coaching. A good coach learns from the student too.
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Well here is what I have right now. Granted I am thinking it might be a good idea to switch to a lighter caliber for the purpose of learning basics without beating myself up or wearing out the barrel of the rifle.
I have a Remington 700 (7mm Rem Mag) with a Leupold Vari-X-III 3.5x10. I also have a bi-pod but I am not sure of the manufacturer. There is a whole back story to this rifle and why I want to use it but I won't bore you with all of those details.
I was thinking of getting a Rem. 700 chambered for the .308 to use as a practice gun. Get familiar with the body mechanics of proper positioning, trigger pull, etc. The skill I am most intrigued with learning is windage. Everything I have read be it on the internet, books, magazine articles, etc has stressed that a shooters ability to judge and compensate for windage is one of the single greatest factors in acheiving optimal performance.
Judging from what you have said the scope I have should be fine for what I need to do now, but what do you think of the idea of getting a different caliber that will have a longer barrel life than shooting magnum rounds?
I have a Remington 700 (7mm Rem Mag) with a Leupold Vari-X-III 3.5x10. I also have a bi-pod but I am not sure of the manufacturer. There is a whole back story to this rifle and why I want to use it but I won't bore you with all of those details.
I was thinking of getting a Rem. 700 chambered for the .308 to use as a practice gun. Get familiar with the body mechanics of proper positioning, trigger pull, etc. The skill I am most intrigued with learning is windage. Everything I have read be it on the internet, books, magazine articles, etc has stressed that a shooters ability to judge and compensate for windage is one of the single greatest factors in acheiving optimal performance.
Judging from what you have said the scope I have should be fine for what I need to do now, but what do you think of the idea of getting a different caliber that will have a longer barrel life than shooting magnum rounds?
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The rifle you have now is just fine. Ammo will cost more, but the cost of re-barreling, buying a new rifle will also cost you. If you like the 7mm, there is certainly nothing wrong with it...especially if you already have ammo, or reloading components. Your scope, and whatever bi-pod you currently have will work fine. The only scope mounts I have ever had problems with are the ones where you can adjust the rear mount for windage.
If you need to change out rings, probably the best value is in TPS rings. They are high quality, and very reasonably priced. The most rings I have are Leupold, Warne, and TPS. But as long as you aren't having accuracy issues, stay with what you have.
If you like the 7mm, there is no reason not to learn with the rifle you already own. Recoil, and expense will be more than a 308, barrel life shorter, but perhaps after the 7mm is shot out, you can re-barrel it to whatever you want.
A new rifle will cost $700-900, and you can buy lots of ammo for that much money.
Another thought for learning basics is the 22 long rifle. Trigger control, and all the basics are required for the 22 just like it is for the centerfire rifles. You just train on little targets at 25, 50, and 100 yards rather than 300-1000 yards. The 5.56x45/223 is also a good training cartridge. Currently, russian 5.45x39 ammo is really cheap, and you can get an AR15 upper receiver to shoot that cartridge for training.
There is much good to be said about learning to shoot the rifle you already own. Everyone has their own opinion about the perfect rifle THEY think you should buy, but in reality, you have to decide what you want the rifle to do, and cost, then buy it.
If I were to suggest which rifle to buy to learn basics, I would suggest the 22 long rifle. the 22 long rifle will have the longest barrel life of any rifle.
Your 7mm mag will wear out the barrel faster than a non magnum, but if you are looking into buying or building a custom rifle, you can use the action and stock off the rifle you have shot out as the basis for your custom rifle.
Learning trajectory is all mechanical. If you know the distance, and you know the trajectory of your cartridge, you know how many clicks it takes to get the elevation right, and simply dial in the correct elevation for that distance, (as long as your meteorological and environmental data haven't changed). Learning the wind takes a very long time, and only practice will get you there...all the books in the world won't allow you to walk onto a range and dial in the correct wind without practice.
So, the 22 will teach trigger control and rifle basics, and you can learn wind with your 7mm. The Appleseed shoots are wonderful events for learning basics. You will probably learn more in one Appleseed weekend shoot than you would in 5x the amount of shooting on your own...and I hear they are alot of fun also.
If you need to change out rings, probably the best value is in TPS rings. They are high quality, and very reasonably priced. The most rings I have are Leupold, Warne, and TPS. But as long as you aren't having accuracy issues, stay with what you have.
If you like the 7mm, there is no reason not to learn with the rifle you already own. Recoil, and expense will be more than a 308, barrel life shorter, but perhaps after the 7mm is shot out, you can re-barrel it to whatever you want.
A new rifle will cost $700-900, and you can buy lots of ammo for that much money.
Another thought for learning basics is the 22 long rifle. Trigger control, and all the basics are required for the 22 just like it is for the centerfire rifles. You just train on little targets at 25, 50, and 100 yards rather than 300-1000 yards. The 5.56x45/223 is also a good training cartridge. Currently, russian 5.45x39 ammo is really cheap, and you can get an AR15 upper receiver to shoot that cartridge for training.
There is much good to be said about learning to shoot the rifle you already own. Everyone has their own opinion about the perfect rifle THEY think you should buy, but in reality, you have to decide what you want the rifle to do, and cost, then buy it.
If I were to suggest which rifle to buy to learn basics, I would suggest the 22 long rifle. the 22 long rifle will have the longest barrel life of any rifle.
Your 7mm mag will wear out the barrel faster than a non magnum, but if you are looking into buying or building a custom rifle, you can use the action and stock off the rifle you have shot out as the basis for your custom rifle.
Learning trajectory is all mechanical. If you know the distance, and you know the trajectory of your cartridge, you know how many clicks it takes to get the elevation right, and simply dial in the correct elevation for that distance, (as long as your meteorological and environmental data haven't changed). Learning the wind takes a very long time, and only practice will get you there...all the books in the world won't allow you to walk onto a range and dial in the correct wind without practice.
So, the 22 will teach trigger control and rifle basics, and you can learn wind with your 7mm. The Appleseed shoots are wonderful events for learning basics. You will probably learn more in one Appleseed weekend shoot than you would in 5x the amount of shooting on your own...and I hear they are alot of fun also.
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Jason Perry of Asylum Arms set the barrel back, recrowned the barrel, made and installed a muzzle brake, refinished my McMillan M40A1 in 300 Win Mag. It has an Obermeyer 5R barrel on it that I wanted to keep using.
Initially, I had accuracy issues after the work was done, but Jason did some testing and suggested that I re-bed the rifle, and try a different method of mounting my Leupold Mk4 Scope. He also suggested a different overall length for my rounds than what I had been using.
I took his suggestions, and yesterday was rewarded with a 200 yard group of .743 of an inche (not MOA, but inch). Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased with the results now that it is all fixed up.
If anyone asks, I wouldn't hesitate to use Jason again...that is if I could get him to accept any work. He said he is really backed up, and may not be accepting any work until he catches up a bit. Fortunately for me though, I don't need any work done right now.
Initially, I had accuracy issues after the work was done, but Jason did some testing and suggested that I re-bed the rifle, and try a different method of mounting my Leupold Mk4 Scope. He also suggested a different overall length for my rounds than what I had been using.
I took his suggestions, and yesterday was rewarded with a 200 yard group of .743 of an inche (not MOA, but inch). Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased with the results now that it is all fixed up.
If anyone asks, I wouldn't hesitate to use Jason again...that is if I could get him to accept any work. He said he is really backed up, and may not be accepting any work until he catches up a bit. Fortunately for me though, I don't need any work done right now.
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- #27
Wow that is some really good shootin'. Well done sir.
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I'm not a good tiny group shooter. That is the part that surprises me. I think much of the credit should go to Jason's work on the rifle, and his suggestions that helped me get the last little bit of accuracy out of it.
The last time I bedded the rifle, it didn't seem to cinch down right. This time, the screws tightened up a bit, and WHAM they stopped dead...not maybe just a little tighter, they were simply not going to go any further because the action had properly bottomed out onto the bedding and the pillars in the stock and wouldn't go any further.
I used to get 300 yard groups of 1.3 to 1.4 inches (not MOA) out of the rifle. Now I think it will do even better than that. If my math is right, the .743 inch group at 200 works out to 1.1 inch at 300 yards. Sweet!
The last time I bedded the rifle, it didn't seem to cinch down right. This time, the screws tightened up a bit, and WHAM they stopped dead...not maybe just a little tighter, they were simply not going to go any further because the action had properly bottomed out onto the bedding and the pillars in the stock and wouldn't go any further.
I used to get 300 yard groups of 1.3 to 1.4 inches (not MOA) out of the rifle. Now I think it will do even better than that. If my math is right, the .743 inch group at 200 works out to 1.1 inch at 300 yards. Sweet!
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- #29
That's really good. I look forward to days like that with great anticipation.
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