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Lock or no lock?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by orygun, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I see many times the comment about getting a "pre-lock" gun. What's the big deal? I understand the we all don't want "Big Brother" looking over our shoulder, but does anyone have a real reason for this type of statement?

    Yeah, a locked gun is a useless except as a hammer, but you don't have to use the lock.

    I have one gun with a lock. The only time I see it is when I take the grips off to clean. I've never taken the keys of of the package. (Ruger Flattop 50th Anniversary .357) This gun doesn't have a very good trigger feel, but I don't believe it's because it has a lock.

  2. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Functionally speaking there really isnt any difference; most of the "locks" I have seen are nothing more than glorified Allen bolts that move up and down half a millimeter to block the trigger or hammer.

    Some people might dislike locking guns out of a fear that the key might be misplaced, although the "key" is a simply generic Allen wrench that can be bought in any hardware store.

    I dont care for them because they are just another visual example of warm and fuzzy "feel-good" laws that are imposed upon us by our ever-expanding nanny state.

    That being said, the existence or lack of a lock on a gun has never been a factor for me as far as whether or not I would buy it.
  3. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Any mechanical device can fail. What if this lock fails, and will not open at the worst possible moment?

  4. davel686

    davel686 Concrete, WA New Member

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    Most of the anti lock threads you see are actually about the IL in S&W revolvers.
    it truly is a joke, the whole lock depends on a tiny little spring that is so small that its even hard to see.
    there have been cases (not many) of the lock jambing the hammer and making the gun un-usable.
    I only have one revolver that has a IL and it did jamb up, so I removed one part of the lock that is called the flag/lock plate and have not had a problem since.
    most people don't have problems with it and just complain because of where S&W chose to put the key part of the lock, on the side of the frame like a wart.
    A lot of people refuse to buy S&W revolver that have the IL in it, but a lot of people buy them and report no problems, it all just depends on what you are using it for.
  5. 9mmMike

    9mmMike Gladstone, OR Member

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    I noted that Fishermans had brand new production 642's in both lock and no lock versions when I was in there a few nights ago. I've also seen no lock versions on the S&W website, so imo they are going to begin easing production in that direction, probably as per the desires of their longtime Revolver following....
  6. davel686

    davel686 Concrete, WA New Member

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    S&W has been offering limited runs of special models with out the lock but the word is that they are using old stock to build them and when that runs out then the lock will be here to stay.
    I have also heard that they are testing the waters to see how sales are on guns with out the lock, only time will tell.
  7. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    They have made a non lock 642-1 for quite some time. Rumor was that they had some old frames lying around, but they have been doing it for a while now, so they must be making new frames (or just had that many older frames).

    Several reason that S&W enthusiasts oppose them is because for one, the lock can engage under heavy recoil (usually with a self defense gun, with full power SD ammo), and it will engage in a position where you cannot even unlock it with a key, you have to open the sideplate and disengage it by hand.

    Second, the addition of locks was an agreement between S&W and the Clinton administration, so inherently owners feel like they are supporting "dumb" gun control by purchasing these guns.

    Finally, at the time of lock introduction is when S&W changed and went with MIM parts, and are suspected to have cut more corners in order to keep costs low. If you look at new S&Ws, they never seem as well built as older guns, and their QC has definitely dropped, a lot of the guns are good, but you see a lot more with sporadic and loose tolerances. I've even heard of a few owners being very disappointed in quality of their performance center guns.
  8. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I own 2 guns with locks. Well only one has the lock anymroe but they both came with them. I don't like the locks for the same reasons listed above. I removed the hammer lock on the Taurus PT1911 because I'm pretty sure it was causing a problem. In my case I replaced the Hammer with a Wilsons Combat to completely eliminate the lock.

    Another reason not mentioned above that I don't like about the locks are at least in my case I noticed on a Taurus PT145 you can not lock it with one in the pipe. Maybe that sounds picky of me but if I already have to dink with the lock to make the pistol usefull I don't want to spend more time chambering a round in a very serious seconds count situation.
  9. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Anytime you put more internal parts into a firearm, you increase the chances of failure at a time when it shouldn't fail. As far as I know the only revolvers that S&W is producing without the lock are the double action revolvers 442, 642, and Model 40 Classic. All other S&W Revolvers have the lock. Its still possible that S&W will remove the lock someday. I believe the social climate is swinging towards an attitude where removing a "safety" would be possible.

    As for the keys, most are not actually just hex keys. Most have a hollow that fits over a pin in the lock. So a standard allen wrench won't work with SOME internal locks...