Lock & Load time for Romney @ NRA

[Jamie6.5]

Just humor me - what laws against the 2nd amendment has Obama enacted during his term as president? To my knowledge none.

James Ruby

According to The Constitution, the executive office cannot "enact laws" on it's own. The office can sponsor and/or write bills, and apply political pressure on Congress to get them passed. Like he did with the ACA, as well as Cap and Trade(tax).
Not that he hasn't tried. He and his VP have said they will act if/when Congress won't.

Executive orders, yes.
Administrative rules from his cabinet level appointees, yes.
These are what I have pointed out above.
The actions of his cabinet secretaries have attempted to shut down shooting on BLM lands if they choose (DoI), concocted Fast and Furious(DoJ), refused the return of the weapons mentioned above (DoD, Commerce), entertained the idea of restricting lead ammo(EPA), and wants a rabid anti-gunner to head the ATF, threatened suit against liberal state gun laws(DoJ).

These are well within the scope of his job, and he has done what he could at every turn.

front lines: Obama's Record on Gun Control <<---LINK

Candice Lanier - Last week, a federal district court in Washington, D.C. issued a ruling upholding an Obama administration policy that requires federally licensed firearms retailers, in states bordering Mexico, to report multiple sales of semi-automatic rifles. Opposed by two NRA-backed firearms retailers and by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, an appeal will be filed on behalf of its affected members.

According to the NRA-ILA, the plan, concocted by Attorney General Eric Holder's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, requires all of the 8,700 firearm dealers in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to report all sales of two or more semi-automatic rifles within five consecutive business days, if the rifles are larger than .22 caliber and use detachable magazines.

This is his DoJ and Eric Holder at work.

Would Romney? He says no, unlike what "O" said in '08, with his support for the AWB and his ideas for "common sense" gun licensing. I believe him. You should too.
He has told us what he wants to do, just because he hasn't had the political capital so far, doesn't mean he won't/can't get it. Especially if Congress goes back to Dem control.

After all, working "under the radar," and "behind the scenes" is what he does best. (in his efforts to hide his agenda from democrat gun owners)
So far, the legislative process (and the perceived political fallout) has saved us from too much of his foolishness.

His SCOTUS appointments however, have the power (for many years beyond his term) to affect laws and their implementation every session.
Those bother me the most, as they should you.

 

[Dave Workman]

Just humor me - what laws against the 2nd amendment has Obama enacted during his term as president? To my knowledge none.

James Ruby

You don't read too well, do you?
And you do not have to enact laws to be bad for the 2A. You appoint people for life who interpret existing laws, and the constitution.

 

[Dave Workman]

This is his DoJ and Eric Holder at work.

Actually, THIS is 'Eric Holder at work'

Issa vows action on Holder as Washington Times demands it

Political rhetoric over Operation Fast and Furious in “the other Washington” heated up once again on Fox News Monday night when Congressman Darrell Issa promised that action will be taken, but he may have been upstaged by the Washington Times’ Monday editorial demanding that Attorney General Eric Holder be held in contempt.

<broken link removed>

His SCOTUS appointments however, have the power (for many years beyond his term) to affect laws and their implementation every session.
Those bother me the most, as they should you.

You obviously did NOT skip class the day they explained this in American Government, as others here evidently did.

 

[JGRuby]

Respectfully a question was asked - what laws or law has Obama passed since he has been president that goes agaisnt the 2A? Not a hard question - please provide evidence that Romeny will be any better because right now as I see we will end up with one of them. Obama or Romney. What factual evidence is there that one willl be any better than the other for gun owners? As I see it we lose either way. In my opinion we are just as bad with a republican in the white house if not worse off. We are playing maybes and what ifs too much around here. The sky is falling - right!!!!!

James Ruby

 

[Dave Workman]

Respectfully a question was asked - what laws or law has Obama passed since he has been president that goes agaisnt the 2A? Not a hard question - please provide evidence that Romeny will be any better because right now as I see we will end up with one of them. Obama or Romney. What factual evidence is there that one willl be any better than the other for gun owners? As I see it we lose either way. In my opinion we are just as bad with a republican in the white house if not worse off. We are playing maybes and what ifs too much around here. The sky is falling - right!!!!!

James Ruby

And James, respectfully, you are playing the excuse game here, deliberately. Congress passes laws. The president signs them. Civics 101.

Obama does not have to sign any laws to have a deplorable impact on the 2A. We've explained that.
If signing laws is your only standard, you are looking at the problem in a one-dimensional way.

Romney, one can expect, will hardly appoint the likes of Sotomayor or Kagan to fill the next SCOTUS vacancy. Likewise, it is doubtful he will saddle us with the kinds of federal judges that Obama has.

He will not likely pursue approval of an international arms trade treaty at the U.N.

He hasn't mentioned who might be the AG under him, but it sure won't be Holder, and one might anticipate that a Romney justice department will go after the people responsible for Fast and Furious under Obama/Holder.
Do I trust Romney to be the next Reagan? Hell, no.
But I do anticipate he will NOT be the next Obama, either.

And "we" don't always get perfect candidates. Your perfect candidate may not be held in such esteem by your neighbor.

Who did you vote for in 2008?
Which party do you favor in any given election?
Why?

 

[Dave Workman]

As gun owners, we simply do not have any "good" choices. Ron Paul is not going to win the Republican nomination and he is not going to be elected as a write in candidate, so those who vote for him as a matter of "principle" need to honestly ask themselves whether they are helping or hurting their 2nd Amendment rights by doing so.

Move to the head of the class!

 

[Jamie6.5]

So administrative rules that infringe on purchases and sales, and that will land you in jail if violated, aren't enough for you?
It's not enough that gun retailers in the southern border states have had their livelihoods curtailed over an administrative rule?
It's not enough that Tennesseans can't enact laws pertaining to guns within their own state borders?

So, since the sky hasn't fallen in the last 3.5 years, (even though plenty of proof has been put forth that obama has tried) you want to give him 4 more years to continue trying,... When he was perfectly clear going in about what he wanted to "accomplish" with regard to gun control.

Mitt on the other hand, has specifically stated before the NRA and others, that he no longer believes in the AWB for America, but that's not good enough for you?

Let's be honest here, obama's agenda has largely failed on a legislative basis, due to efforts by Republicans and the NRA. But that doesn't change his stance, his efforts, or his results THUS FAR. Especially with regard to his SCOTUS picks.

I find it VERY hard to believe that any politically aware gun owner will support this admin, regardless of party affiliation.

 

[idRATHERbeOUTDOORS]

People not willing to vote for Paul because they are told he has no chance, are the reason he would have no chance. The economy is in the crapper one way or the other Romney Obama makes no difference they are both bad for the country.

Plus, do people really think that Paul could not beat Obama? -Really? someone with the most widespread support across the spectrum?

 

[JGRuby]

So administrative rules that infringe on purchases and sales, and that will land you in jail if violated, aren't enough for you?
It's not enough that gun retailers in the southern border states have had their livelihoods curtailed over an administrative rule?
It's not enough that Tennesseans can't enact laws pertaining to guns within their own state borders?

So, since the sky hasn't fallen in the last 3.5 years, (even though plenty of proof has been put forth that obama has tried) you want to give him 4 more years to continue trying,... When he was perfectly clear going in about what he wanted to "accomplish" with regard to gun control.

Mitt on the other hand, has specifically stated before the NRA and others, that he no longer believes in the AWB for America, but that's not good enough for you?

Let's be honest here, obama's agenda has largely failed on a legislative basis, due to efforts by Republicans and the NRA. But that doesn't change his stance, his efforts, or his results THUS FAR. Especially with regard to his SCOTUS picks.

I find it VERY hard to believe that any politically aware gun owner will support this admin, regardless of party affiliation.

So what are these rules and where do I find a copy of these rules you speak of? No, Mitts word is not sufficent to me because of what he did in his own state and have no reason to believe him now. Where is the documented evidence that Obama is directly behind these rules? I will admit I am not a fan of Holder.

I voted for Obama and may do so again
I am a registered democrat but will vote for who i feel is the best candidate -so far teh republicans aint cutting it.
I was going to vote for Ron Paul.

All I am hearing is a lot of scrare tactics like I always hear from NRA and the republicans. When the republicans stop listening to the religous right - I may start leaning thier way again.

James Ruby

 

[BSG 75]

You have evidently been sleeping at the wheel.
He's directed the State Dept. to do a 180 on the proposed Small Arms Trade treaty,, supporting that pact when for the past several years, under Bush, the U.S. position was opposed. And he made Hillary Clinton, an avowed anti-gunner, Secretary of State.

Any Small Arms Trade treaty - even if it was ratified by the Senate, which is unlikely - would have no effect on the Second Amendment or US gun laws. He appointed Hillary to keep the Clintons (both of them) from causing him grief (keep your friends close, and your enemies closer) not because she is anti-gun. She is anti-gun, but that isn't why he appointed her.

He appointed Sonia Sotomayor to the U.S. Supreme Court. She's a liberal anti-gunner
He appointed Elena Kagan to the U.S. Supreme Court. She's a liberal anti-gunner
He has appointed several liberal judges to the lower federal courts, where many gun law challenges will be decided, not simply heard (SCOTUS may not accept these cases for review)

He appointed liberals because they are liberal, not because they are anti-gun. Just as a Republican president appoints conservatives (mostly) because they are conservative, not because they are pro-gun.

A Democratic president appointing liberals to the court. Why, that is shocking and unprecedented!

He appointed Eric Holder, an avowed anti-gunner, to the Attorney General's position, and under Holder, the ATF launched Operation Fast & Furious

Holder worked for Obama's campaign. His appointment was a reward for that, not just because he is anti-gun.

Far too many people simply do not understand that Obama can do a lot of stuff that is anti-gun that simply goes under their personal radar. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid, but only a little gullible. What might Kagan and/or Sotomayor do on the court for the next, say, 20 years? What might those Obama judges do to gun rights questions for 20-30 years?
Those appointments are lifetime appointments. And we'll be stuck with those people.

That's right, we are already stuck with Sotomayor and Kagan. Electing Romney won't get rid of them, so it's a moot point.

In addition, there is no guarantee Romney will appoint pro-gun justices and judges.

Romney's Record on Judicial and Legal Appointments:

Can he be trusted as President to appoint conservatives to the Courts and Justice Department?



By Amy Contrada

December 9, 2011

Summary: Mitt Romney's record as Governor does not indicate a commitment to a conservative judicial philosophy.

His judge appointees revealed at best "no philosophical or partisan pattern" (Boston Globe), or at worst a liberal and even radical tilt. He sought out feminists and radical homosexual groups in his judicial selection process. He was inconsistent in his pronouncements on judicial activism, allowing it to occur under his watch (with "gay marriage") while simultaneously urging others to fight it. How then could we expect him to keep his recent promises to appoint constitutional conservatives to the bench if he is elected President?

Romney's Judiciary

Politicians trying to appear moderate and trying to appeal to independents often go against type. For Obama, that has been not pushing for more gun control, when it would have been easy to do after Tucson. For RINOs like Romney, that is often manifested by pushing for more gun control, to appear more "moderate". George H.W. Bush did it by banning importation of "assault weapons". George W. Bush said he would have supported renewal of the 1994 "assault weapon" ban. RINO Gov. Schwarzenegger signed some anti-gun bills in California

Schwarzenegger Signs New Gun Law - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
Schwarzenegger signs ammo-regulation bill

RINOs trying to appeal to moderates are worse for gun rights than Democrats trying to appeal to moderates.

In addition to Dave's list I would add:
His refusal to allow thousands of M1 Garands and carbines to come home from Korea.

Your information is old. The Garands are coming. U.S. To Import 87,310 M1 Garand Rifles from Korea | The Truth About Guns

Then there's his ATF attempt to outlaw imported semi-auto shotguns like Saigas.

No attempt was made and the Saigas were never banned, and will not be banned. Little Noticed Provision Kills ATF Shotgun Ban Plans

His requirement for restrictions on long gun sales in the southern border states.

No restrictions, just a requirement that multiple sales on the same day are reported, but not restricted.

His choice of anti-gun zealot Andrew Traver to head up the ATF.

I'll give you that one. Even a broken clock has the correct time twice a day.

Bravo!
I overlooked those. Good to have someone dependable on my six

I think you both just got shot down in flames.

 

[DMax]

So what are these rules and where do I find a copy of these rules you speak of? No, Mitts word is not sufficent to me (Obams is so forthright and you saw how he voted in his state yet you put him in fed control) because of what he did in his own state and have no reason to believe him now. Where is the documented evidence that Obama is directly behind these rules? I am sure you are aware of all the CZars obama has put in charge of different agencies that write the rules and regulations after a law is passed) I will admit I am not a fan of Holder. (Ditto)

I voted for Obama and may do so again
I am a registered democrat but will vote for who i feel is the best candidate -so far teh republicans aint cutting it.
I was going to vote for Ron Paul.

All I am hearing is a lot of scrare tactics like I always hear from NRA and the republicans. When the republicans stop listening to the religous right - I may start leaning thier way again. James Ruby

This response is exactly why demowitts are clueless about the way things work and and don't care who's money they steal. Its all about the new age BS being in the moment as critical thinking has left the planet.

This is the same thinking that when all the other parts of the constitution are gone and all that is left is 2A( Cause you cannot show me one thing obama has done to get rid of 2A) How of much energy and effort will it take to get rid of the last one. Then what will you do. If you cannot look beyond the moment then when it arrives you have no reason to be suprised.

 

[Dave Workman]

I voted for Obama and may do so again
I am a registered democrat but will vote for who i feel is the best candidate -so far teh republicans aint cutting it.
I was going to vote for Ron Paul.

All I am hearing is a lot of scrare tactics like I always hear from NRA and the republicans. When the republicans stop listening to the religous right - I may start leaning thier way again.

James Ruby

Why am I not surprised?
The"best" candidate always has a "D" behind his name.
You were really gonna vote for Ron Paul? Got a hard time with that one.

James, if you are a gun owner and are truly concerned with 2A rights, there is a disconnect somewhere.

 

[fd15k]

Well, I'll guess with you. Where did it come from?

US public debt is approximately $15.6T. $1.3T out of that amount is cost of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (just the directly visible cost).

 

[JGRuby]

This response is exactly why demowitts are clueless about the way things work and and don't care who's money they steal. Its all about the new age BS being in the moment as critical thinking has left the planet.

This is the same thinking that when all the other parts of the constitution are gone and all that is left is 2A( Cause you cannot show me one thing obama has done to get ride of 2A) How of much energy and effort will it take to get rid of the last one. Then what will you do. If you cannot look beyond the moment then when it arrives you have no reason to be suprised.

It is my beleif that the republicans are over reaching paranoid individuals that primarily use scare tactics to get thier way. I prefer to base my opinion on reality not made up facts. The second amendment is important granted but in my opinon all rights are important. I cannot back somone who has done one thing in thier own state and then tell everyone when its to thier advantage that he has changed his viewpoint simply because its convient. That person is Romney. The fact that Romney is the republican candidate is because its the republican voters choice. I was hoping for better.

James Ruby

 

[DMax]

US public debt is approximately $15.6T. $1.3T out of that amount is cost of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (just the directly visible cost).

Is that for the 10yrs (1.3T)if so Not bad since obama added in 5T in the last 3.5 yrs. And the economy is roaring back ok that part is a stretch.

 

[deadeye]

done