Local Militia Organization

[novamind]

A quick google search netted this...Judge delays release of militia members - Washington Times

 

[chariot13]

Could you expound a bit?

Nothing towards you. The last little tidbit is for a few on these boards and how highly regarded their opinions are.

 

[Bob D]

Wow. Here's a great way to jump start your file at the BATF.

This is an exceedingly bad idea, and anyone considering it should just walk away now. Go to your range, go shooting. Talk shop on here, collect your firearms for protection, hobby, sport... but avoid ANYthing like this. It's just a flat-out bad idea.

 

[9mmhp]

Dude, how big of a bonus do you get from the ATF for entrapping people? And how much for convictions?

Really? So all the fear mongering has worked and people are to afraid to do anything at all? No wonder why this is happening, we have all become sheep who will let just about anything happen to us.....What is the difference between this and say a neighborhood watch? You think just because people organize, own arms, and want to prepare for if something happens be it foreign or domestic that the government is going to throw you in jail? I am sure they would love for you to believe that. Do you know how many active militia groups there are in the US? FBI only focuses on the radical tin foil hat ones....

 

[9mmhp]

Wow. Here's a great way to jump start your file at the BATF.

This is an exceedingly bad idea, and anyone considering it should just walk away now. Go to your range, go shooting. Talk shop on here, collect your firearms for protection, hobby, sport... but avoid ANYthing like this. It's just a flat-out bad idea.

I disagree. Why do you think organizing people within a community to protect, network, compound resources, and work together for a common goal is a bad idea?

 

[RVTECH]

I disagree.

NOW we are getting somewhere - Disagreement is good. Let us know how this works out for you in six months to a year.

 

[9mmhp]

Could be a plant setup ............. hmm never thought of that.
Diversion is the best tactic the opposition has to the 2nd.
Why not get everyone in this forum to commit to a Militia group and then they have all who want in
on a list from this forum. ( sarcasm)

I have said from the beginning this is a bad idea. I am stunned as I want my information private
just like everyone else who supports the 2nd.
However the thought here is lets make it easier for them to find us by grouping together with our guns
and then we can show them how smart we are and who we are ??

I for one have no guns sold them all today (wink wink) !!
So no need to join a Militia! If I did have guns (wink wink)
I would have them long after any member of a militia would !
This Sh*t is funny as hell to watch I will say that

So how does change happen then? Also if they want to find you they are going to find you and your weapons. And this is not just about the pending ban, look at the economy.

 

[9mmhp]

NOW we are getting somewhere - Disagreement is good. Let us know how this works out for you in six months to a year.

It will work out for me good, I already have a small network of my own, supplies, people to help. Community is always good in difficult times. I just believe the more people I can trust, that trust me, and are willing to protect the people and things I love the better. People that only think as individuals are alone, and help when needed is never there.

 

[RVTECH]

So how does change happen then?

By YOU doing whatever you believe will make a difference. Like I said let us know how it works out for you.

 

[kaz440]

Many friends of mine in a small town in rural Oregon were in a militia, they trained with tactics and marksmanship etc, and the DHS broke them up citing domestic terrorism. I still talk with one of them and he says its a bad idea to get on their radar unfortunately. I personally believe it is unconstitutional for the DHS to have done that (assuming they broke no laws...), and I would like to join a local militia, but I have to admit after watching what they went through, I don't want to give them any reason to harass me either.

 

[CamoDeafie]

well this little piece of law says you can be charged for training with small unit tactics...

ORS 166.660 - Unlawful paramilitary activity - 2011 Oregon Revised Statutes

Unlawful paramilitary activity

(1) A person commits the crime of unlawful paramilitary activity if the person:

(a) Exhibits, displays or demonstrates to another person the use, application or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or any technique capable of causing injury or death to persons and intends or knows that such firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique will be unlawfully employed for use in a civil disorder; or

(b) Assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons with the intent to unlawfully employ such firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique in a civil disorder.

(2)(a) Nothing in this section makes unlawful any act of any law enforcement officer performed in the otherwise lawful performance of the officers official duties.

(b) Nothing in this section makes unlawful any activity of the State Department of Fish and Wildlife, or any activity intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense techniques, such as karate clubs or self-defense clinics, and similar lawful activity, or any facility, program or lawful activity related to firearms instruction and training intended to teach the safe handling and use of firearms, or any other lawful sports or activities related to the individual recreational use or possession of firearms, including but not limited to hunting activities, target shooting, self-defense, firearms collection or any organized activity including, but not limited to any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range or shooting range which does not include a conspiracy as defined in ORS 161.450 (Criminal conspiracy described) or the knowledge of or the intent to cause or further a civil disorder.

(3) Unlawful paramilitary activity is a Class C felony.

(4) As used in this section:

(a) Civil disorder means acts of physical violence by assemblages of three or more persons which cause damage or injury, or immediate danger thereof, to the person or property of any other individual.

(b) Firearm has the meaning given that term in ORS 166.210 (Definitions).

(c) Explosive means a chemical compound, mixture or device that is commonly used or intended for the purpose of producing a chemical reaction resulting in a substantially instantaneous release of gas and heat, including but not limited to dynamite, blasting powder, nitroglycerin, blasting caps and nitrojelly, but excluding fireworks as defined in ORS 480.110 (Definitions for Oregon Fireworks Law) (1), black powder, smokeless powder, small arms ammunition and small arms ammunition primers.

(d) Law enforcement officer means any duly constituted police officer of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state or the District of Columbia, and also includes members of the military reserve forces or National Guard as defined in 10 U.S.C. 101 (9), members of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the District of Columbia not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by 10 U.S.C. 101 (9), members of the Armed Forces of the United States and such persons as are defined in ORS 161.015 (General definitions) (4) when in the performance of official duties. [1983 c.792 §2; 1987 c.858 §3; 2001 c.666 §§26,38; 2005 c.830 §27; 2009 c.610 §7]

 

[MikeSettles]

well this little piece of law says you can be charged for training with small unit tactics...

ORS 166.660 - Unlawful paramilitary activity - 2011 Oregon Revised Statutes

Unlawful paramilitary activity

(1) A person commits the crime of unlawful paramilitary activity if the person:

(a) Exhibits, displays or demonstrates to another person the use, application or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or any technique capable of causing injury or death to persons and intends or knows that such firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique will be unlawfully employed for use in a civil disorder; or

(b) Assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons with the intent to unlawfully employ such firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique in a civil disorder.

(2)(a) Nothing in this section makes unlawful any act of any law enforcement officer performed in the otherwise lawful performance of the officers official duties.

(b) Nothing in this section makes unlawful any activity of the State Department of Fish and Wildlife, or any activity intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense techniques, such as karate clubs or self-defense clinics, and similar lawful activity, or any facility, program or lawful activity related to firearms instruction and training intended to teach the safe handling and use of firearms, or any other lawful sports or activities related to the individual recreational use or possession of firearms, including but not limited to hunting activities, target shooting, self-defense, firearms collection or any organized activity including, but not limited to any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range or shooting range which does not include a conspiracy as defined in ORS 161.450 (Criminal conspiracy described) or the knowledge of or the intent to cause or further a civil disorder.

(3) Unlawful paramilitary activity is a Class C felony.

(4) As used in this section:

(a) Civil disorder means acts of physical violence by assemblages of three or more persons which cause damage or injury, or immediate danger thereof, to the person or property of any other individual.

(b) Firearm has the meaning given that term in ORS 166.210 (Definitions).

(c) Explosive means a chemical compound, mixture or device that is commonly used or intended for the purpose of producing a chemical reaction resulting in a substantially instantaneous release of gas and heat, including but not limited to dynamite, blasting powder, nitroglycerin, blasting caps and nitrojelly, but excluding fireworks as defined in ORS 480.110 (Definitions for Oregon Fireworks Law) (1), black powder, smokeless powder, small arms ammunition and small arms ammunition primers.

(d) Law enforcement officer means any duly constituted police officer of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state or the District of Columbia, and also includes members of the military reserve forces or National Guard as defined in 10 U.S.C. 101 (9), members of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the District of Columbia not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by 10 U.S.C. 101 (9), members of the Armed Forces of the United States and such persons as are defined in ORS 161.015 (General definitions) (4) when in the performance of official duties. [1983 c.792 §2; 1987 c.858 §3; 2001 c.666 §§26,38; 2005 c.830 §27; 2009 c.610 §7]

DHS doesn't care about state laws. They are only interested in preventing anyone from disturbing the Federal status quote. Nor will they enforce state or local law.

It seems to me that the operative phrase in this statute is "intent to cause or further a civil disorder." If they show up and no one is fomenting "disorder," nor threatening the government, nor preparing to rob banks (another form of "civil disorder"), they haven't a LAWFUL reason to interfere.

 

[nwdrifter]

yes i would have to say Bad idea. The first thing they will do when shtf is label all organised militias as terrorist organizations.

 

[JackThompson]

So this is a slippery slope isn't it?

On one hand, I'd like to know what's going on, and I believe Uncle Sugar is fomenting civil disorder... So who gets to break their party up?

On the other hand, I'd like the support of my local community in the event of a disaster or national crisis. In fact, I'd prefer local support to federal support.

 

[RoneKiln]

Training with small arms and small group tactics may be the most fun aspect of a "militia," but it's really the least useful. First aid, search and rescue, wilderness survival skills, gardening, hunting, small livestock raising, handyman skills, etc are going to be more regularly used. Yes, nothing beats training with a firearm when a dangerous person or animal threatens, but there are so many other skills that will be used more often. A "militia" or preparedness group can be awesome for that.

I wouldn't even call it a militia. Try to get together a first aid/CPR class for board members in your area. Make it a meet and greet with a good topic to learn. Poll people there on what classes they may be able to teach and if anyone would be willing to attend. If you find a good group that gets along well, keep setting up times for everyone to go learn something useful. As people become better friends and trust each other more, you'll start getting true benefit from the organization.

Someone already mentioned that most people live too far apart to be of immediate value for defense. That doesn't harm the ability to learn useful things together, find people you can trade skills/services with, find people to go in together on bulk purchases, keep an eye on deals for each other, and have safe homes to bug out to during times of localized flooding, power outage, etc. It may not be a "militia," but it serves our modern day needs much more effectively and doesn't cause anyone concerns over legalities.

If the absolute worse happens to our society, you have a good group of people you've come to trust that you've probably spent some time playing paintball or shooting at the range with that you've learned some good skills with. Hopefully you've helped each other put in your gardens, chicken coops, etc.

 

[clearconscience]

This seems oretty easy to me.
Militia: bad
Group of like minded people enjoying outsoor activities and preparing for natural diasters: good

The problem with militias is they are usually a bunch of gun shooting, confederate flag waving, govt hatin, back woods racists.

If you start a group of people going on camping trips learning how tolive off the woods, learn survival techniques, evac plans, community organizing, etc then your not trying to overthrow the govt.

Wear blue jeans, not BDUs, and battle vests.

When I was a kid I was in an explorer post learning search and rescue. Taught me a lot about being comfortable in the woods, first aid, rapelling, climbing, etc.

We need a new age militia. More like the PTA or boy scouts, not full metal jacket rejects.

 

[Kevinkris]

actually that law says that it is only illegal if the intent is civil disorder. you can sell it as a defense self training group and include survival and evasion techniques. or you can go the route of camping trips in which you intend to get some airsoft games in.

it is perfectly legal to do this, there are other Oregon groups that do it, you just need to make sure that you are explicit and open about all of your values and intentions. the Oregon Rangers would probably be the best example of how you can keep it legal and within perfect reason.

if you just want people to come out and do some shooting with you, feel free t give me a shout. im nearby and ill be happy to hit the range with you. just dont expect me to do any running around with a loaded gun.

 

[CamoDeafie]

actually that law says that it is only illegal if the intent is civil disorder. you can sell it as a defense self training group and include survival and evasion techniques.

who defines the intent? that is what I am getting at. to allude to what was said about DHS and Patriot Act; wasn't there a list of traits/conditions that defined "a possible extremist/terrorist" that included Right Wing political beliefs, reducing government size, belief in religions, membership of religious organizations, that sort of thing?
if for example, an alphabet soup group says "ok, they're getting together to shoot, train, camp, and be with like minded people, its called civil disorder because we don't want them to be shooting and be with like minded people who do NOT think like US." seems I remember something about proving intent, and the ASSUMPTION of intent getting law abiding people in all sort of troubles in the past...

and Militia was once the ONLY defense we had against the British Crown..... it's not all bad, I say. it is just that....after seeing what have happened with riots, with peaceful gatherings that turned violent, with civil disobedience (there, thats another instance of "civil disorder"!), let us suppose they decide that us "red neck, backwoods, confederate flag waving wannabe southern racist gun owners" getting together for a shoot, camping, weekend of learning survival skills constitutes "civil disorder" because we're not going to turn guns in, or do other "wholesome family activities" like watching American Idol #whatever, or contributing to their coffers for political campaigning or letting them redistribute our wealth; and sent in troops to arrest us, and make US pay for all the court fees and legal headaches getting them to prove intent... I'm still going to say they WILL find something to define as "civil disorder" however insignificant it might be, and thus try to stop us from practicing good skills/tactics.

 

[Hotrodvw67]

IMO the best defense, put what ever label you want to on it, is the one that isn't seen coming. I believe the local populous in your home area should collaborate and work together. Work together in survival, trust, knowledge of what ever you wish to share with each other, etc... I sure as hell am not going to publically advertise what I am doing, when or where. If you feel the need for such plans, and I don't entirely disagree, then focus on your local neighbors. Folks 50 miles from you won't do a lot of good when the troops are on your street.

 

[Scott]

The problem is we get together, those of us who are combat vets start giving everyone training in small unit tactics and DHS labels us all domestic terrorists.

I think it should only be vets E5 or above. Assist other groups though.

There are some things that just can't be taught.

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