Local ATF bust in Oregon and SW Washington

[Blitzkrieg]

<broken link removed>

...it makes you wonder if this Operation Kraken news is just to counter the CBS report.

That was my main point.. when was the last time BATF actually went after real bad guys this aggressively?

 

[RainMan_PNW]

I never can, it's a continuing nightmare in the minds of all patriots with no justice served to the terrorists with badges who perpetrated it

I grew up (and lived at the time) less than 1 mile as the crow flies from that little cabin in North Idaho. Pretty hard to forget when your friends and neighbors are kicked out of their houses while Big Brother sets up command central in their front yard and lets their pets die of thirst and starvation - all to put an end to such a threat to the foundations of their beauracracy (sarcasm). Never mind the atrocities committed against a man and his family (right OR wrong in his beliefs is up to a higher power than any agency or man can judge) who simply wanted to live in seclusion and free of persecution.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I grew up (and lived at the time) less than 1 mile as the crow flies from that little cabin in North Idaho. Pretty hard to forget when your friends and neighbors are kicked out of their houses while Big Brother sets up command central in their front yard and lets their pets die of thirst and starvation - all to put an end to such a threat to the foundations of their beauracracy (sarcasm). Never mind the atrocities committed against a man and his family (right OR wrong in his beliefs is up to a higher power than any agency or man can judge) who simply wanted to live in seclusion and free of persecution.

That was what our nation was founded upon but everything is upside down today

 

[marty8587]

I hope they use due dilligence and make sure all of these guns confiscated return to their rightfull owners..

 

[RallySoob]

I think we just need One more law that makes it against the law to break the law,
SWEEET

lol

 

[CEF1959]

On the gun charges: Where in the 2A does it say that the right of the people (w/o felony convictions) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? The government determines what constitutes a felony, and the government apparatus determines when someone will be arrested for, and convicted of, a felony. If government-identified felons lose their 2A rights, the government gets to decide who possesses 2A rights. I'm not ok with the federal government deciding who and who is not qualified to hold 2A rights.

 

[billdeserthills]

On the gun charges: Where in the 2A does it say that the right of the people (w/o felony convictions) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? The government determines what constitutes a felony, and the government apparatus determines when someone will be arrested for, and convicted of, a felony. If government-identified felons lose their 2A rights, the government gets to decide who possesses 2A rights. I'm not ok with the federal government deciding who and who is not qualified to hold 2A rights.

I agree, in fact it is easy to see that Our Forefathers Never intended for a person's gun rights to become forfeit, for any reason save your trip to Jail. You needed that gun to survive, there were no stores available for the Vast majority of people to buy food or clothing. Back then when a person was sentenced to any amount of time, you can bet that was the amount of time a person stayed in jail. Prison was a serious punishment and violent offenders should not be turned back out into society.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I completely disagree with the whole rights of a felon to own a gun idea. It is not a requirement to survive these days that a person own a firearm so that argument is without merit. Also, during the times of the forefathers, it was common place for convicted criminals to lose all rights and privileges of citizenship. They would have considered it common knowledge that one who was convicted of heinous crimes would not enjoy the benefits of citizenship. Trying to take a position that felons should be allowed to purchase handguns is a losing argument that will garner little support from any side and only hurt other legitimate pro-gun positions.

 

[Trlsmn]

I completely disagree with the whole rights of a felon to own a gun idea. It is not a requirement to survive these days that a person own a firearm so that argument is without merit. Also, during the times of the forefathers, it was common place for convicted criminals to lose all rights and privileges of citizenship. They would have considered it common knowledge that one who was convicted of heinous crimes would not enjoy the benefits of citizenship. Trying to take a position that felons should be allowed to purchase handguns is a losing argument that will garner little support from any side and only hurt other legitimate pro-gun positions.

Doh, you fell right into CEF's trap!

 

[billdeserthills]

I completely disagree with the whole rights of a felon to own a gun idea. It is not a requirement to survive these days that a person own a firearm so that argument is without merit. Also, during the times of the forefathers, it was common place for convicted criminals to lose all rights and privileges of citizenship. They would have considered it common knowledge that one who was convicted of heinous crimes would not enjoy the benefits of citizenship. Trying to take a position that felons should be allowed to purchase handguns is a losing argument that will garner little support from any side and only hurt other legitimate pro-gun positions.

If well-documented issues exist concerning this "Stripping of Gun Rights" during the time of Our Forefathers, I would like to read them, do you know of any such thing? Was it used against a whole class of folks, or were there qualifiers??

 

[Blitzkrieg]

On the gun charges: Where in the 2A does it say that the right of the people (w/o felony convictions) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed? The government determines what constitutes a felony, and the government apparatus determines when someone will be arrested for, and convicted of, a felony. If government-identified felons lose their 2A rights, the government gets to decide who possesses 2A rights. I'm not ok with the federal government deciding who and who is not qualified to hold 2A rights.

The Founders in their writings indicated that "peaceable citizens" should never be abridged their 2nd Amendment rights.. so "felony" is not the question as far as this issue, IMO.. it never should have been. The issue is "are you are total violent felon or crazy, (as adjudicated by a court of law and a jury of 12 of your peers) or not?"

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Bear Arms

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

 

[deen_ad]

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

Thomas Jefferson said that.

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[Blitzkrieg]

"No freeman shall ever be disbarred the use of a firearm"

Who said that (or something like that)?

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

It's on the same link.. one of the old dead guys on our federal reserve notes

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950]

 

[slingshot1943]

If a felon is up to no good it's nice to know he is not allowed to have a gun.

 

[billdeserthills]

If a felon is up to no good it's nice to know he is not allowed to have a gun.

Do you really think a Felon gives a rat's *** about a law? It is enough that you be allowed to have the means to Man Up & defend yourself

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If a felon is up to no good it's nice to know he is not allowed to have a gun.

I guess they didn't get the memo

 

[CEF1959]

I completely disagree with the whole rights of a felon to own a gun idea. It is not a requirement to survive these days that a person own a firearm so that argument is without merit. Also, during the times of the forefathers, it was common place for convicted criminals to lose all rights and privileges of citizenship. They would have considered it common knowledge that one who was convicted of heinous crimes would not enjoy the benefits of citizenship. Trying to take a position that felons should be allowed to purchase handguns is a losing argument that will garner little support from any side and only hurt other legitimate pro-gun positions.

But it's the government that decides who a felon is. What if being gay or being a Jew or being a member of the Tea Party were made a felony? Still OK to ban gun ownership for those people?

 

[CEF1959]

If a felon is up to no good it's nice to know he is not allowed to have a gun.

When is a "felon" up to no good? When the government decides who is, or is not, a felon, your 2A rights turn on the whims of the government.

 

[Buddhalux]

Another point that once a felon completed their appointed time in prison then they were let free as their debt to society and the justice system was fullfilled. Only in our modern age do they have extra hoops to jump thru and then they have to apply to get certain rights restored.