Oregon Arms & Ammunition
Southwest Firearms Forum
Defensive Arts
RifleClass.com
J&B Firearm Sales
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Oregon Rifleworks
Low Price Guns
Gun Deals
Sporting Systems
Buster Beaver Cerakote
Welcome to Northwest Firearms
Join our community, sign up for free today!
Sign Up

Loading for M1 Garand .30-06.....?

Marine Airedale

Messages
180
Reactions
233
I might have to use IMR 4895 because it seems that's what's available. I have one # of H4895 and it doesn't seem to be on any shelves here, and tough to find on-line. I don't care to get an 8#er at this stage.
An eight pound jug is not a bad way to go. You have powder for a long while, all the same lot number.
 
OP
Mikej

Mikej

Messages
8,885
Reactions
17,096
An eight pound jug is not a bad way to go. You have powder for a long while, all the same lot number.
True that, but I'd rather buy eight- ten 1# jugs and then, maybe, sell some off down the line. I don't shoot that much so one large jug would take me a long time to use and be more difficult to sell part of.
 

Marine Airedale

Messages
180
Reactions
233
True that, but I'd rather buy eight- ten 1# jugs and then, maybe, sell some off down the line. I don't shoot that much so one large jug would take me a long time to use and be more difficult to sell part of.
Valid point for certain. What is the matter, did not plant that money tree in the back yard? I know that I certainly did not. Above all have fun with the M1, been many many years since I shot hi power matches but it was fun in the day.
 
Messages
10
Reactions
7
I might have to use IMR 4895 because it seems that's what's available. I have one # of H4895 and it doesn't seem to be on any shelves here, and tough to find on-line. I don't care to get an 8#er at this stage.
M: Both IMR or H 4895 are in the right zone of burning rate, medium fast, for this 150 gr @ 2700 fps. So long as you start low and work up carefully with a chronograph, you'll be just fine. - CW
 
OP
Mikej

Mikej

Messages
8,885
Reactions
17,096
M: Both IMR or H 4895 are in the right zone of burning rate, medium fast, for this 150 gr @ 2700 fps. So long as you start low and work up carefully with a chronograph, you'll be just fine. - CW
I don't have a chrono :oops:.....Some day I hope. I start at the low end and use more than one source to determine what low end is. I also pay particular attention to ejection, and brass and primer condition. I will also shoot factory, in this case PPU .30-06 "For Garand", and compare recoil between that and my loads. I take reloading seriously.

The info provided regarding where the brass goes after ejection is quite helpful. I'm pretty darned anal when it comes rolling my own so I'm not really worried about blowing up a gun.
 
Messages
70
Reactions
113
Stay away from hot loads. It will wreck your gas system. My accuracy load for 173 grain match ammo is pull it down, dump powder, reload powder weighed to 43.3 grains of 4895 (which is what it was loaded with). This is a bolt gun load, have not tried it in Garands but will probably do OK for you.

When match Garands were built for Navy Team they issued 3 op rods with each rifle as they warped shooting 173 match ammo. When they converted them to 7.62 no extra rods were issued and they shot all season without warping. In 7.62 40 gr. 4895 will give you about 40,000 pounds so 43.3 in 30.06 should be about the same.
 
Messages
10
Reactions
7
For many years I fired 180 grain bullets in my M1 Garand, often with slower powders. However, I always used a McCann Industries adjustable gas cylinder lock screw to vent excess gas. My original operating rod is still intact and working just fine. Lately, I've been shooting only 150 grain Sierra Matchkings, loaded to 2700 fps with medium fast powders like 8208XBR.

Ejection pattern is the best indicator of bolt speed. Garands are erratic in this regard, but a central tendency of about 2:30 oclock ejection is in the right zone for durability and reliability, IMO. Any ejection approaching 12:30 oclock is way too hot, anything approaching 5:00 oclock invites FTF malfunctions. - CW
 

WoodsPlinker

Messages
886
Reactions
2,549
Just got one of them fancy endoscope dealies on Amazon and shoved it down all my guns to see how good of a job I've been doing. All of them were pretty good until I got to my M1 Garand, holy crap and a lot of copper fouling.

Just hit it with some wipe out, got half of it, just hit again. I figured I'd only shot it twice how bad could it be.

U forgot all the guys in ww2 and Korea that shot it before me. :eek:

The CMP does not clean the copper fouling out for you. Lol

Now I'm thinking maybe I should hit the 1911 even though it didn't look that bad.

I'm still building up brass to reload it, this is a good thread for my future reloading for it. :) Thanks all for the tips.
 
Messages
70
Reactions
113
Copper is not necessarily bad. Clean the copper out and shoot it and every 100 rounds shoot another target with same load and see if you are getting increased dispersion. If so clean it, if you are not why why remove he copper? Some barrels just don't mind cleaning and some need it.

We cleaned every 600 rounds at Aberdeen or at the end of the day's firing.

I clean with grease. CIP Swiss Army has cleaned with grease since late 1800s and I never heard anyone get a bad barrel on a Swiss surplus rifle and I have had three of them.
 

WoodsPlinker

Messages
886
Reactions
2,549
Clean the copper out and shoot it and every 100 rounds shoot another target with same load and see if you are getting increased dispersion. If

I usually only shoot it for special occasions so it'll take a long time to go through 100 rounds.

When I say I shot it twice, I mean it's only had about maybe 40 rounds shot through it, in over a year..

The grooves were filled with copper, not just the pits, the entire length of the barrel was filled with copper along the grooves. Now I understand a little copper can fill in the pits and such but.... That was alot of copper.

Admittedly I'm a clean freak... It's not the accuracy it's the idea that my barrel is full of copper. It didn't look too pitted under it either so who knows, maybe it'll help a bit for accuracy.... Not that I care, because I got the rifle more for the history instead of the accuracy.

I'm actually more concerned about the two barrels that had a small amount of rust around the chamber. Gotta keep them cleaned/oiled more often.

And my long range/accuracy rifle barrel is so pretty I almost wanna have a pic of it blown up so I can mount it on the wall. And its my oldest rifle at this point.

Remington makes a nice barrel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron

ron

Messages
1,871
Reactions
3,628
Just got one of them fancy endoscope dealies on Amazon and shoved it down all my guns to see how good of a job I've been doing. All of them were pretty good until I got to my M1 Garand, holy crap and a lot of copper fouling.
Old GI barrels can be rough causing cu fouling. Brownell's Bore Paste is your best friend. Also useful every couple thousand rounds in your AR
to clean the carbon ring the builds up in the barrel throat. Smooths up the bore making any rifle shoot better. Follow directions
and flush well with Hoppe's #9. M1 match coming up next weekend Dec. 14 at DRRC. They have rifles to loan, shooting mat, spotting
scope and 30/06 ammo for sale for match. Douglas Ridge Rifle Club - Service Rifle Program
1575877900637.png
 
OP
Mikej

Mikej

Messages
8,885
Reactions
17,096
I'm getting to prepping the PPU brass for the Garand now. I decided to size five shells before cleaning as it was, pretty darned clean! I just wiped them down good. At this point I'm using the RCBS lube, I also have some One Shot. I walnut, w/car wax, tumbled cleaned the other 55 cases. In sizing/decapping those first five it sure seems that it was tougher than it should be to retract the expander ball from the case. Is that normal? Do you guys just deal with that? I believe I've seen a brush to apply some lube inside the neck, but not sure I want to put anything in there that might taint the powder charge.

I scored a LE Wilson case gauge for .30-06. I already had the Hornady Headspace comparators, but it seems to me this Wilson case gauge is much easier as there is no need for using the micrometer.

Playing with the Wilson case gauge, putting un-sized/un-trimmed fired brass in it fits like it should....Base between steps and neck where it should be. I take this to mean the chamber in MY rifle is perfect. Perfect meaning not over sized. Chamber shoulder perfect, meaning very little shoulder bump should be needed. Actually the first case I sized just barely came out past the step on the base after sizing. I put the die down just a bit until it barely cammed over when reaching the bottom of the sizing stroke, and that was all that was needed to have it go all the way into the case gauge.

Sized/decapped brass drops right in, base where it should be and the tiniest bit of trimming needed to come below upper step on gauge. Question...The book says "Trim To" 2.484". When the case mouth shows proper length in the case gauge it's still .005" -.007" over that 2.484" trim to length the books show. Seeing as the book gives a trim to, but no max length, I will surmise that as long as that brass fits between the two steps in the Wilson case gauge that it will run without problems in my Garand.

Any thing wrong with my logic here?

I will note that I am pretty anal with my loading. I spend more time than needed, I think, making sure my 9mm rounds have very close to the same COL. Measure powder drops religiously. Inspect my loaded/fired brass regularly when shooting to make sure it looks proper. Some of these question may seem too obvious but it all goes to my particular mindset when I set down to make my little tiny brass cased bombs.:D
 

ron

Messages
1,871
Reactions
3,628
The trim length is 2.484 and max length is 2.494 in my RCBS chart. In my experience most M1 rifle chambers are not
as tight other 30/06 chambers even my M1 with a NM barrel is not as tight as a 1903 or 1903A3 rifles. The Wilson
gauge I have used did not measure case shoulder set back very well. I would use your Hornady headspace comparators.
You want to measure a piece of brass before it is sized and then after it is sized to see if you are bumbing back the shoulder
sufficiently. I select a couple pieces of brass that have the longest measurement. And then I size and measure
these select pieces. Your headspace measurement should be the same as new factory ammunition.
 
Last edited:
OP
Mikej

Mikej

Messages
8,885
Reactions
17,096
The trim length is 2.484 and max length is 2.494 in my RCBS chart. In my experience most M1 rifle chambers are not
as tight other 30/06 chambers even my M1 with a NM barrel is not as tight as a 1903 or 1903A3 rifles. The Wilson
gauge I have used did not measure case shoulder set back very well. I would use your Hornady headspace comparators.
You want to measure a piece of brass before it is sized and then after it is sized to see if you are bumbing back the shoulder
sufficiently. I select a couple pieces of brass that have the longest measurement. And then I size and measure
these select pieces. Your headspace measurement should the same as new factory ammunition.
Okay, thanks Ron. That's good advice. I will get the comparator out and see what that tells me. And like I said, a slight cam over let the brass drop nicely into the Wilson gauge. I was really hoping that Wilson gauge was going to be that easy. I did chamber a sized (untrimmed) piece of brass and the top of the neck was slightly scuffed, for lack of a better term, telling me that the 2.897 was a little long.

Are you saying I'm good between 2.484"-2.494"? Is there a reason I should take it all the way down for all pieces? I would prefer the brass be all the same, but I would think that trimming less if you can would be better than trimming all the way down to 2.484" every time?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron

ron

Messages
1,871
Reactions
3,628
Are you saying I'm good between 2.484"-2.494"? Is there a reason I should take it all the way down for all pieces? I would prefer the brass be all the same, but I would think that trimming less if you can would be better than trimming all the way down to 2.484" every time?
Yes you are safe between these limits. 2.484-2.494 This measurement is for sized brass. I measure my fired previously reloaded
brass and anything above 2.490 (since it will stretch when sized) goes into the 'Need to Trim' pile. As for accuracy consistent length equals
consistent neck tension which is important for accuracy. How far do you want to go? Separate your brass in lots by weight ? I don't
know I guess it depends on where you want to go? I reload brass between 2.484----2.494 and get great accuracy also with my scoped
bolt guns.
 
Last edited:

ageingstudent

Messages
1,237
Reactions
2,896
If you lube the inside of the case neck the expander ball will do a much better/more even job of expanding the neck and it will be much easier. I like to dip the neck in powdered mica because I don't have to clean the case necks after expanding. RCBS and a couple other places make powdered mica dry lube. I think some folks favor dry graphite but so far the mica works fine for me and I have some. It lasts forever.
 
Messages
10
Reactions
7
Mikej: You are on the right track and its good to be extra diligent. There are two dimensions you must deal with in cleaning, sizing and trimming your brass: shoulder bump back (measured with the comparator) and case length (measured with the calipers). FWIW, here's my drill:

- Clean the brass first, the M1 gets them dirty for sure. I like to use plain corn cob with no additive, for about 4 hours in a vibrating tumbler.
- Measure several fired cases in the Hornady comparator, write down the dimension to the point on the shoulder
- Size one of those cases, wipe off lube and measure again. For a semi auto like the M1, the sized point to the shoulder should be about .004 to .005" less than unsized case. I will take some fiddling with the sizer die to get it right. I like to use Hornady's LocknLoad bushings on my dies so I only do this adjustment once, not every time I process fired cases.
- Proceed to lube and size the rest of the cases. I use Castor oil in my finger tips, but One Shot works too. I apply some powdered graphite to the inside of every third neck to ease the button on the up stroke.
- Clean the brass again to remove all lube. Don't worry about the primer pockets, you can clean them later with a hand reamer when inserting fresh primers. Some people never clean them, but at least you have to check for corn cob or walnut material stuck in the primer flash holes.
- Measure each case with your caliper. The chamber dimension is 2.502". Any which are too long (i.e., longer than about 2.496") I trim back to a bit less than 2.490" (my trimmer is not exact). 2.484" is just fine, not too short since the .30-06 round likes to stretch.
- Any which are trimmed need to be deburred, inside and out of the mouth. I use the Little Crow tool to trim, powered by a drill motor in a homemade wooden tray that holds it still. I then use the Lyman tools chucked into the drill to chamfer inside and out.
- I clean, size and trim all my cases of a caliber at once and set them aside until I'm ready to load a particular recipe. I have more than one .30-06 rifle, but thankfully all share the same chamber dimensions.
- The Wilson die is OK for a sanity check of a loaded round, but otherwise not of much use in processing brass. BTW, Wilson makes the ne plus ultra of trimmers, but its hand powered, so for my high volume cartridges like the 06, I prefer the Little Crow trimmers.

Good luck - CW
 
Last edited:

ron

Messages
1,871
Reactions
3,628
Best case lube I have ever used is Dillon spray on lube. Lay your cases in a metal tray light spray and shake. Too
much lube will give you wrinkles on the case shoulder. To clean off the case lube mist cases with water
and wipe clean. Best part is you can make home made case lube that is exactly what the Dillon lube but much cheaper.
Pure alcohol and liquid lanolin. Amazon has everything you need. Many recopies on line.
 

ron

Messages
1,871
Reactions
3,628
Mikej: You are on the right track and its good to be extra diligent. There are two dimensions you must deal with in cleaning, sizing and trimming your brass: shoulder bump back (measured with the comparator) and case length (measured with the calipers). FWIW, here's my drill:

- Clean the brass first, the M1 gets them dirty for sure. I like to use plain corn cob with no additive, for about 4 hours in a vibrating tumbler.
- Measure several fired cases in the Hornady comparator, write down the dimension to the point on the shoulder
- Size one of those cases, wipe off lube and measure again. For a semi auto like the M1, the sized point to the shoulder should be about .004 to .005" less than unsized case. I will take some fiddling with the sizer die to get it right. I like to use Hornady's LocknLoad bushings on my dies so I only do this adjustment once, not every time I process fired cases.
- Proceed to lube and size the rest of the cases. I use Castor oil in my finger tips, but One Shot works too. I apply some powdered graphite to the inside of every third neck to ease the button on the up stroke.
- Clean the brass again to remove all lube. Don't worry about the primer pockets, you can clean them later with a hand reamer when inserting fresh primers. Some people never clean them, but at least you have to check for corn cob or walnut material stuck in the primer flash holes.
- Measure each case with your caliper. The chamber dimension is 2.502". Any which are too long (i.e., longer than about 2.496") I trim back to a bit less than 2.490" (my trimmer is not exact). 2.284" is just fine, not too short since the .30-06 round likes to stretch.
- Any which are trimmed need to be deburred, inside and out of the mouth. I use the Little Crow tool to trim, powered by a drill motor in a homemade wooden tray that holds it still. I then use the Lyman tools chucked into the drill to chamfer inside and out.
- I clean, size and trim all my cases of a caliber at once and set them aside until I'm ready to load a particular recipe. I have more than one .30-06 rifle, but thankfully all share the same chamber dimensions.
- The Wilson die is OK for a sanity check of a loaded round, but otherwise not of much use in processing brass. BTW, Wilson makes the ne plus ultra of trimmers, but its hand powered, so for my high volume cartridges like the 06, I prefer the Little Crow trimmers.

Good luck - CW
Good post I agree. Except I trim to 2.484. My procedure for 30/06 previously reloaded cases are cleaned and measured.
Separate out the cases longer than 2.490. Lube and load on my Dillon. Wipe the case lube off of loaded rounds by misting
them with water. I love the little Crow Trimmer leaves very little to chamfer and debur.
 
OP
Mikej

Mikej

Messages
8,885
Reactions
17,096
Yes you are safe between these limits. 2.484-2.494 This measurement is for sized brass. I measure my fired previously reloaded
brass and anything above 2.490 (since it will stretch when sized) goes into the 'Need to Trim' pile. As for accuracy consistent length equals
consistent neck tension which is important for accuracy. How far do you want to go? Separate your brass in lots by weight ? I don't
know I guess it depends on where you want to go? I reload brass between 2.484----2.494 and get great accuracy also with my scoped
bolt guns.

I figured I didn't need to trim all the way down. I asked in case I was missing something. And no, I'm no sharp shooter, so not going to separate brass by weight. :D I would naturally trim all the same though.

If you lube the inside of the case neck the expander ball will do a much better/more even job of expanding the neck and it will be much easier. I like to dip the neck in powdered mica because I don't have to clean the case necks after expanding. RCBS and a couple other places make powdered mica dry lube. I think some folks favor dry graphite but so far the mica works fine for me and I have some. It lasts forever.
Is this what your talking about?

Not this particular one necessarily, but the stuff they are using as epoxy dye? Not much money and could have a little jar in a couple of days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron

LATEST REVIEWS

  • Rapid Fire Arms
    5.00 star(s)
    Great place friendly service always take time to help you, great knowledge of products
    • RJSouth
  • Supporting Vendor Copeland Custom Gunworks
    5.00 star(s)
    Perfect install of peep sight on my cz 527 carbine. Price was right, was expecting it to be more. Will be my go to for anything I can't handle...
    • cd90caprice
  • Adaptive Firing Solutions
    5.00 star(s)
    I've been party to a couple transactions with Steve and he is a great guy to deal with.
    • titsonritz
  • TJ Gun Sales
    5.00 star(s)
    Purchased two handguns there and have one on consignment now nice folks!
    • rl280
  • Northwest Armory - Tigard
    5.00 star(s)
    Went in to help my buddy with his purchase and ended up trading in a 1911 towards a CZ SP-01 Tactical. They gave a higher price that some of the...
    • nosbocaj

SUPPORT NORTHWEST FIREARMS

Staff online