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Like Sheep to the Slaughter

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by simon99, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious if any of you have ever had a logical, analytical conversation with a true anti-gun zealot?

    Keeping things factual and devoid of the emotional rhetoric, why would someone actually be anti-gun? Not to bring politics or religious beliefs into the argument, but doesn't it seem logical that if you are pro-life you would be concerned with protecting not only your own, but other lives around you? If you are pro-choice, wouldn't you choose to protect your own life? If you are a Christian, wouldn't it seem sensible that a Creator endowed you with the foresight and understanding to protect yourself against evil, or perhaps you're an atheist? The fact that you believe in no Creator, but maybe evolution, wouldn't you see man as a dominant species with the power to protect himself?

    I just don't understand any basis whatsoever for any argument against the right to self-preservation.

    What are your thoughts? Please, lets attempt to keep this thread civil...the fact that we're here means we can hold each other to a higher standard and cooperate with our ideas.

    Semper Fi
     
  2. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    You can't usually have a logical, dispassionate discussion with an anti-gun person because for most of them their position arises from pure emotion. It's based in fear and it has all the hallmarks of religious belief. It's not even fear of guns themselves, but of the people who like and use them. Some of them have real "father" issues pertaining to masculinity and anything associated with masculinity or power. Some of them live in a carefully constructed fantasy world where violence and evil don't really exist. When you want to talk about protecting yourself from violence and evil you are impinging on their fantasy. Violence and evil only happen to those "other" people who are not like us. We don't need to be concerned with it because we live in a safe environment where evil things can't happen. When you talk about the possibility of it happening to you, or even worse, them you force them to confront the fact that they live in a fantasy, and they really, really don't like that. But good luck to you anyway.
     
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  3. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Interesting points Zeke... I agree with you. I have yet to ever have this conversation, I've tried but it usually turns into what you describe. I just find their behavior baffling....
     
  4. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    i just bring it around to morals, they love to take the moral high ground, then i hit them with moral absolutes taht without them, then any one can do right in thier own eyes and no one can say waht is really right or wrong. they shut up soon after that
     
  5. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Anti-gunners are little sissies who never baited a hook while sitting on a mud bank with their father, never pitched a tent in the forest after a long day's hike, or never cleaned a horse stall; sissies who ride girls' bikes while wearing girls' helmets, afraid of the world and everyone in it, trusting no one and desiring with all their heart to right all the wrongs of the world with the force of an omni-powerful government, all ironically at the end of a gun, and all because their mommy and daddy didn't love them.

    Keith
     
  6. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Anti-gun zealots, by their very nature, CAN'T be reasoned with.

    It's like arguing with someone over the historical basis for Jesus or the Scientific belief in evolution. It's where faith (gun control) meets reason (Science).
    You can NEVER argue with faith. By it's nature it's rooted in things other than the empirical and logical.
     
    Sling Blade and (deleted member) like this.
  7. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Most do not want to hear anything except their own opinion and nothing
    positive about firearms. You can present facts, statistics and even try to
    reason with them to just listen to your viewpoint, but in the end it seldom works.

    Some are turned when something in their lives happens that could have been prevented
    if they had a gun available, but even then, not many.

    and then.....
    There are those that want to be the only ones to have firearms and those are visible in the political
    front.
    Personally I would not be upset just giving them the life they want.
    Like this below.

    what-libs-want.jpg

    what-libs-want.jpg
     
  8. razormanxx

    razormanxx eugene Active Member

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    It's mostly due to not knowing. In their minds a gun can go off anytime. It's the same reasoning for no firearms signs, they think in a crowded area someone bumping a concealed gun can set it off. Personally I feel people should learn about things that scare them. And stats are true lots of people die in America from guns, and cars and medical mess ups, and even hammers.
     
  9. Commander Merkin

    Commander Merkin Bandon OR New Member

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    A conversation with an anti-gun zealot always ends with them saying "we'll just have to agree to disagree"...or as I like to call it "The mother of all debating cop-outs."

    You will never turn them around because they don't care about facts or logic. They care about being right. Period.

    Better to have a calm conversation with someone who is on the fence about firearms. You'll end up swinging someone to the only rational side of the issue.
     
  10. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Though not a true anti-gun zealot, I was able to have an intelligent conversation with a woman I know who said she supported " closing the gun show loophole". I asked her what she thought that meant....she was under the false assumption that you could walk into any gun show, go up to a dealer and walk out with a gun sans background check. After informing her of the true facts, that this is not possible, I could see the wheels turning in her head. Thankfully, she realized the logic of the current system in place and why we don't need additional systems put into place.
    This has been the only time I walked away feeling slightly vindicated.
     
  11. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    no, you cant have a logical, analytical conversation with someone who is in denial. Try talking with someone about their problem with alchohol when they have not admitted it themselves. Try talking with someone about accepting responsibility for their own self defense when they live in utopia. They want a world without guns so they can feel "safer", but what they really want is a world without violence and corruption. They don't get it.
     
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  12. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    Oh for vast majority of them it is fear of bad guys. Bad guys with guns are more dangerous that bad guys without guns.
    Most have very likely grown up in the cities where guns are not something seen on a regular basis.
    ...and most importantly they have been conditioned by the government and the media that guns are dangerous and in order to have one you need special permission from the government.
     
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  13. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    That was a good outcome, hopefully.. Every once in a while ya win one.

    The biggest obstacle is:
    Gun control people are not rational thinking people. Their minds are frozen in an illusion of some kind of socialistic utopia that does not, has never, and never will exist.
    Then there are those that are total controllers that want the only people to be armed are themselves so they have no opposition to controlling everyone else.
    A few will come around and see the light in time. Not by verbal countering, but generally by circumstance in their lives that alter their thinking process. If they actually take the time to think.......
     
  14. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is the same as trying to convince certain individuals that walking down the street next to a school or mall while carrying an AR is just plain wrong. Doesn't matter what you say, their mind is made up and they are not about to change it.
     
  15. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Exactly.

    If you're walking next to a school or a Mall with your AR on a single-point sling looking like you're on patrol in FALLUJAH...

    You're indicating one of several possible things:
    1. you're a nutcase about to go postal.
    2. You're a total bubblegum looking for attention because you weren't breast-fed enough and using 2A to dress-up your pathetic inadequacies with political relevance.
    3. You a total IDIOT who thinks that carrying an AR or AK is somehow a defensive carry of a weapon. When anyone who knows ANYTHING about rifles or street fighting will render your weapon USELESS in a second or two, and proceed to kick your ***, because you were relying on a gun, rather than actual useful skills which might include a gun of some kind, to defend yourself. -Because ya, it's that quick and easy and anyone who's ever carried a rifle as a defensive tool knows it is.

    Cause you can't buttstroke me cause I got too close. in SEATTLE. -End of your defensive strategy as I make your long gun unusable and proceed to go after your groin while my buddy takes shots at your head. And ya, the O/C handgun you would have carried if you were all about OC, might have actually given you some help in the same scenario.

    SCREW you guys.

    Go get laid or whatever. For Christ's sake stop trying to put yourselves in the same boat as gun-rights people. You aren't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  16. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Butthurt-Detected-75000186641_xlarge.jpe
     
  17. DeanfromOregon

    DeanfromOregon Wilsonville Amateur Ascended Master Platinum Supporter

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    One day when I was 9, I rode a girls bike. But can I keep my man card if I swear that jumped it and helmets did not exist?
     
  18. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    I learned on my sister's bike and no helmet. Then the next Christmas rolled around and I got my brand new Schwinn Stingray Deluxe with banana seat and cheater slick rear tire with a springer front end. Only helmet I wore in 1967 was a plastic WWII silver German helmet that I got at e Puyallup Fair and put a Maltese cross decal on. I was a little upset when I crashed the bike on ice. Bike ok and me a little sore but the jerry helmet got a nice crack in it. Mom thought I was crazy but then she never did love me as much as my older brothers and sister. Did. I tell you about the Christmas I got my first pony, a sled and it snowed? It was marvelous except that Christmas my sister got her Second pony! I thought wth?
    Later I sold my pony and horse and bought a dirt bike.
    Brutus out
     
  19. Sling Blade

    Sling Blade Yamhill County Well-Known Member

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    You're lucky to come from a wealthy family, Brutus. We were so poor that at night my dad made us go outside and crack our knuckles so the neighbors would think we had enough money to buy walnuts.
     
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  20. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    That is the basic definition of delusion and covers a lot more items than the false belief that guns themselves are bad or 'evil.' A deluded person will stay that way on a particular subject, sometimes their whole lives, unless they and only they decide to step back and examine their delusion.

    Unfortunately, irrational emotions and pride usually win out over facts, reason and logic.