Lift Every Voice says they met IP17 signature goal...

[_Will_]

They're already in Salem, what's more awful than that?

Sweet home?

 

[kmk1012]

Sweet home?

Hey now, a routinely go through there on my way to one of the lakes for beer, pretty decent prices too.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Sweet home?

Hey now, I was born and raised there for the first 8 years of my life, Sweet Home is a nice sleepy little town nobody has ever heard of, and I hope it stays that way, thought to see the housing being built in the surrounding areas, I would say it's too late, and another Oregon Town turns into Sisters Oregon!
Sweet Home was also practically destroyed when the timber industry was shut down in the 80's, and has suffered the depression that brought for far longer then other towns!

 

[_Will_]

Hey now, I was born and raised there for the first 8 years of my life, Sweet Home is a nice sleepy little town nobody has ever heard of, and I hope it stays that way, thought to see the housing being built in the surrounding areas, I would say it's too late, and another Oregon Town turns into Sisters Oregon!
Sweet Home was also practically destroyed when the timber industry was shut down in the 80's, and has suffered the depression that brought for far longer then other towns!

Perhaps, im being too critical. I was looking at a house out there. Its definitely a sleepy old logging town. I just got the sense most of the town has abandoned derelict buildings, the locals are" locals". Small knit commuity feel which is a good thing. It seemed more poverty stricten vs other smaller Oregon towns I've seen along the I5.

One things for sure, they will ignore IP17 or 18 100% that town is like Hazzard County.

 

[kmk1012]

Perhaps, im being too critical. I was looking at a house out there. Its definitely a sleepy old logging town. I just got the sense most of the town has abandoned derelict buildings, the locals are" locals". Small knit commuity feel which is a good thing. It seemed more poverty stricten vs other smaller Oregon towns I've seen along the I5.

One things for sure, they will ignore IP17 or 18 100% that town is like Hazzard County.

I love living in Linn "Hazard" County, there are definitely a lot of perks here. Way lower taxes and power rates for starters, plus our sheriff is about as good as you will get this side of the Cascades.

 

[Tony617]

 

[dancinghippos]

While I mostly agree with your statements above. I still have your flyers and passed them out best I could. I think we're being overly critical of ourselves here. LEVO according to their Facebook page has 1500 volunteers. They're smart and strategic about what events they target based off voter base. LEVO also has big money behind them and works with the Giffords legal center.

While I think public engagement and trying to influence those that are on the fence, to come over to our side is a good tactic. We should mirror their tactics and seek out friendly pro 2A folks. I'd wager we could easily get 140, 000 signatures if we fought like hell..

And I most appreciate the effort you and a couple others who reached out to me personally put out to get those out there.


Why did they succeed?

LEVO was an existing organization with members and media/donor support. For IP17, they got started last year and already had an organization with connections, people ready to volunteer and political/newspaper support.

I agree that we could have done that too, had we started at the same time and had a similar number of "already here" supporters.

Pro-2A people can do this too. But it means getting involved and working with others, even if some are "no compromise" and others are only "no machine guns and red flag might be ok". We can have those arguments later. ALL OF US agree that IP17 is a stupid plan and a slippery slope when limiting mag sizes didn't stop some idiot from doing something stupid.

Also recall the laughter exhibited here when they "only" had 30,000 signatures in April or May. One moron in Texas managed to get them going again, didn't he?

The key question is, can we work together despite what are really minor differences? LEVO people came from multiple religions and sects of religions. No doubt there were multiple political parties represented, but they focused on one thing they all agreed on. We can do that too.

It means all of us devoting real time and some money, not a few people trying to do everything. LEVO has some leaders, but the ground work was done in an organized fashion by hundreds of people, not 15 people. We can do that.

It means spending money to pay a real lawyer real money to help with legal and organizational issues. A NO on 17 organization is a realistic thing. It means spending time and money to write and proofread real arguments for the voter's guide and paying the attorney to deliver them on our behalf and letting them know he/she will be checking that there were no "errors" in the final pamphlet. It means taking time to write arguments tailored for the huge swayable middle-ground voters, including very liberal voters who themselves were targets of others' hatred and appreciate self-defense. Anyone remember Pink Pistols? "An armed gay won't be bashed". We have some common ground there.

It means printing tons of stuff and driving to every gun store in the state to put on their counters for their customers to read and distribute to other gun owners.

It can be done. It has been done. But only by unified large groups. Can we do that?

Please let me hear your thoughts. If you absolutely refuse to work with others who are a little softer or harder on 2A issues than you, or won't work with NRA if we can get some support from them, that's OK. But please refrain from interference.

NRA gave me contact information of some local reps. If they are willing to get involved, I am willing to donate for involvement I can see ahead of time and agree will have visible effect.

Best to all.

 

[dancinghippos]

Perhaps, im being too critical. I was looking at a house out there. Its definitely a sleepy old logging town. I just got the sense most of the town has abandoned derelict buildings, the locals are" locals". Small knit commuity feel which is a good thing. It seemed more poverty stricten vs other smaller Oregon towns I've seen along the I5.

One things for sure, they will ignore IP17 or 18 100% that town is like Hazzard County.

If the state government decides to make an example of them, can they withstand the heat? I appreciate the attitude, but modern Oregon leadership can be Stalinist/Leninist in their application of power. States have unlimited money and press support.

 

[_Will_]

And I most appreciate the effort you and a couple others who reached out to me personally put out to get those out there.


Why did they succeed?

LEVO was an existing organization with members and media/donor support. For IP17, they got started last year and already had an organization with connections, people ready to volunteer and political/newspaper support.

I agree that we could have done that too, had we started at the same time and had a similar number of "already here" supporters.

Pro-2A people can do this too. But it means getting involved and working with others, even if some are "no compromise" and others are only "no machine guns and red flag might be ok". We can have those arguments later. ALL OF US agree that IP17 is a stupid plan and a slippery slope when limiting mag sizes didn't stop some idiot from doing something stupid.

Also recall the laughter exhibited here when they "only" had 30,000 signatures in April or May. One moron in Texas managed to get them going again, didn't he?

The key question is, can we work together despite what are really minor differences? LEVO people came from multiple religions and sects of religions. No doubt there were multiple political parties represented, but they focused on one thing they all agreed on. We can do that too.

It means all of us devoting real time and some money, not a few people trying to do everything. LEVO has some leaders, but the ground work was done in an organized fashion by hundreds of people, not 15 people. We can do that.

It means spending money to pay a real lawyer real money to help with legal and organizational issues. A NO on 17 organization is a realistic thing. It means spending time and money to write and proofread real arguments for the voter's guide and paying the attorney to deliver them on our behalf and letting them know he/she will be checking that there were no "errors" in the final pamphlet. It means taking time to write arguments tailored for the huge swayable middle-ground voters, including very liberal voters who themselves were targets of others' hatred and appreciate self-defense. Anyone remember Pink Pistols? "An armed gay won't be bashed". We have some common ground there.

It means printing tons of stuff and driving to every gun store in the state to put on their counters for their customers to read and distribute to other gun owners.

It can be done. It has been done. But only by unified large groups. Can we do that?

Please let me hear your thoughts. If you absolutely refuse to work with others who are a little softer or harder on 2A issues than you, or won't work with NRA if we can get some support from them, that's OK. But please refrain from interference.

NRA gave me contact information of some local reps. If they are willing to get involved, I am willing to donate for involvement I can see ahead of time and agree will have visible effect.

Best to all.

Lots of unpack here... I think we miscalculated on LEVO and their ability to organize that's for certain. They really gained traction towards the end of June and 4th of July of weekend. From what I understand and read LEVO is also associated with " EveryTown USA" which is funded by Bloomberg and Gifford's. LEVO amassed 1500 volunteers which is impressive feat of itself, I'll give them that..

One of the things I miscalculated and wrote off were "Portlanders".. I was lurking on the Portland Subreddit and overwhelmingly they were against IP17 and 18. Main reason being is the text gives law enforcement the ability to regulate and administer the " Permit to purchase". One of the posters bluntly posted " We didn't work hard for 2 years of protests to give law enforcement the power to be in charge our 2nd amendment rights". It truly came as a massive revelation that most Portlanders themselves don't like this anymore than we do.

They also mentioned that the LEVO ballot collectors were aggressive in their approach. But I digress here..

Moving on, we do need REAL legal representation. I aswell, would be willing to contribute what I can do. I believe we can collectively come together on this and defeat this. It's also my understanding OFF Oregon Firearms Federation claims they cannot take any legal action unless IP17 becomes law in order to petition the courts in a pending lawsuit. I was under the impression originally that NW firearms also had legal arm and acted as a foundation to challenge measures like IP17 & 18. I was member of Calguns in CA and they did just that. I lived through all the CA firearms nonsense and hate to see Oregon go down the same road..

sources:

Racist Ballot Measure Moves Forward – Oregon Firearms Federation

www.oregonfirearms.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/vw960i

 

[Ura-Ki]

Guys, PLEASE Stop postings Crap from OFF, they are not welcome here, and we do not promote them, especially after Kevin's Perma Ban!
You wanna support that jerk, go right ahead, but THIS sight does not!

 

[_Will_]

Guys, PLEASE Stop postings Crap from OFF, they are not welcome here, and we do not promote them, especially after Kevin's Perma Ban!
You wanna support that jerk, go right ahead, but THIS sight does not!

I had no idea on the backstory

 

[solv3nt]

Guys, PLEASE Stop postings Crap from OFF, they are not welcome here, and we do not promote them, especially after Kevin's Perma Ban!
You wanna support that jerk, go right ahead, but THIS sight does not!

Apparently I missed it too.

 

[kmk1012]

Apparently I missed it too.

I'm a very regular one on here as well and not sure as to what happened. I think we should welcome all the help we can get.

 

[Ura-Ki]

SO, back a few years when the last gun control stuff came through, Kevin went off the deep end, ranting and raving on and on and on about this and that, turns out he made several claims that were false and then lied about them when called out on it, he doubled down and kept going, having clearly been called out on it! His own sight contained the very info and proof of his lies and he was banned here! Kevin really is his own worst enemy, had he simply admitted he was lying, offered a public apology, and taken his false facts down from his sight, things might have been different, but NOPE!

 

[solv3nt]

SO, back a few years when the last gun control stuff came through, Kevin went off the deep end, ranting and raving on and on and on about this and that, turns out he made several claims that were false and then lied about them when called out on it, he doubled down and kept going, having clearly been called out on it! His own sight contained the very info and proof of his lies and he was banned here! Kevin really is his own worst enemy, had he simply admitted he was lying, offered a public apology, and taken his false facts down from his sight, things might have been different, but NOPE!

Years ago, I was thoroughly unimpressed with his live debate with Penny Okamoto.

 

[dancinghippos]

SO, back a few years when the last gun control stuff came through, Kevin went off the deep end, ranting and raving on and on and on about this and that, turns out he made several claims that were false and then lied about them when called out on it, he doubled down and kept going, having clearly been called out on it! His own sight contained the very info and proof of his lies and he was banned here! Kevin really is his own worst enemy, had he simply admitted he was lying, offered a public apology, and taken his false facts down from his sight, things might have been different, but NOPE!

I missed all of that too.

Without further comment on that, if/when we mount a campaign to resist foolish laws like this, if is KEY that we present our case clearly and correctly. We must avoid deception that the antis can seize and focus on as "proof" the pro-2A side is wrong. The news media act as the opposing attorney in a courtroom. We should police ourselves before our political enemies do it for us.

 

[Mikej]

SO, back a few years when the last gun control stuff came through, Kevin went off the deep end, ranting and raving on and on and on about this and that, turns out he made several claims that were false and then lied about them when called out on it, he doubled down and kept going, having clearly been called out on it! His own sight contained the very info and proof of his lies and he was banned here! Kevin really is his own worst enemy, had he simply admitted he was lying, offered a public apology, and taken his false facts down from his sight, things might have been different, but NOPE!

I missed that too, but I quit reading him sometime before that I guess. We don't need rants. We get plenty of that here. And I think it's needed and appreciated. HERE, not from someone that is trying to impress lawmakers with sensible thinking and ideas.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I support Kevin because he shows up.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I support Kevin because he shows up.

It's entirely up to you who you choose to support, but know this, Kevin is only in it for Kevin!
Here is what went down:

OFF All Wrong

Kevin Starrett at OFF posted this today on Facebook: Senator Knopp Sells Out 05.08.19 Today Senator Tim Knopp sold out his fellow Republicans and returned to the floor in an effort to give gun grabbing Democrats the quorum they need to pass devastating legislation. Yesterday the “Oregon...

www.northwestfirearms.com

All links and references are still active!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's entirely up to you who you choose to support, but know this, Kevin is only in it for Kevin!
Here is what went down:

OFF All Wrong

Kevin Starrett at OFF posted this today on Facebook: Senator Knopp Sells Out 05.08.19 Today Senator Tim Knopp sold out his fellow Republicans and returned to the floor in an effort to give gun grabbing Democrats the quorum they need to pass devastating legislation. Yesterday the “Oregon...

www.northwestfirearms.com

All links and references are still active!

that was a nonstop train wreck