Liberty Safe broken into lessons learned

[Koda]

This guy had his Liberty safe broken into. They tipped it over and used an angle grinder.

Bolt your safes down....

View: https://youtu.be/HgIXX7UOfr0?si=2-l0gE14rT7GH6lS&t=266

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[Hotdog 7]

Deviant Ollam has a very good video where he discusses what makes a good gun safe. When it comes to physical entry, he's one of the best internet personalities in the business. He can be a little preachy with his politics but I just ignore it because most of his content is still informal. This video is quite long but is very educational.

View: https://youtu.be/8tAbaqBy1Bc?si=Qw_vrf37SWhRKx-Y&t=187

 

[Koda]

Deviant Ollam has a very good video where he discusses what makes a good gun safe.

Its all about how much you can spend, but its good to know what a true "burglar rated" safe is. I was still impressed it took them just over an hour to get into the Liberty safe even after tipping it over.

 

[JRuby]

So what are the odds a crook breaking into your house is going to bring a die grinder with them? You don't think someone would hear a die grinder being used on a safe. The idea is not to attract attention.

 

[edzz]

So what are the odds a crook breaking into your house is going to bring a die grinder with them? You don't think someone would hear a die grinder being used on a safe. The idea is not to attract attention.

Many here may have a die grinder or two in the shop or garage. As far as noise not everyone lives in a paper walled apartment. Now how they would overcome the security system and feel secure enough to make so much noise that they don't hear the dogs coming...
Any thing can be broken into, the idea is to slow them down.

 

[Old Dog]

So this guy didn't even have a security system in place? I have every door and window alarmed, so if any of them are breached, an alarm goes straight to the security company -- and there's motion detectors in every room, an audible alarm that will wake the dead as well as a strobe on the front of my garage that can be seen from commercial airliners at 35,000 feet. And someone is relying solely on a safe?

 

[nammac]

That's crazy, 90%-95% of safes aren't bolted down? Seriously????

 

[Ducati_Meister]

My safe is bolted down and not easy to get around the sides and back. As some said here, the idea is to slow them down. Get the best safe you can afford and be aware of the difference between an RSC or Residential Security Container vs a TL-15 and a TL-30 safe. Sometimes you can find some nice second hand TL rated safes which offer great security as they will have more steel, which is is the first line of defense in a safe.
Odds are, not all criminals are going to be equipped with a thermal lance or even a cutting torch as many are just looking for "quick fox" so to speak. Granted, your garage might have some tools they might use, but that would be pretty rare I think.
Another thing too in WA, safes are not taxable with sales tax as a small benefit.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So what are the odds a crook breaking into your house is going to bring a die grinder with them? You don't think someone would hear a die grinder being used on a safe. The idea is not to attract attention.

Cordless angle grinders are super common with homeless and thieves around here.

 

[orygun]

This reminds me of something a friend once told me. He knew a guy that went on vacation and had locked all of his tool boxes. Well, he forgot to take the cutting tip off of the torch set and lock that in one of the boxes. The thieves used his torch to cut open his tool boxes and steal his tools.

My safe is bolted down in a corner and my torch tip is locked away when I leave!

Anything to make it difficult for a thief.

 

[orygun]

It's not illogical to think, though, that the same cutting methods could be used on a safe that was left standing.

 

[kmk1012]

So this guy didn't even have a security system in place? I have every door and window alarmed, so if any of them are breached, an alarm goes straight to the security company -- and there's motion detectors in every room, an audible alarm that will wake the dead as well as a strobe on the front of my garage that can be seen from commercial airliners at 35,000 feet. And someone is relying solely on a safe?

Let me tell you a story about a security system. One of my duties at work are to oversee the water plant for drinking water. There was an alarm at the plant one night and it immediately alerted the security company. Their policy is to call their contact, which is me, prior to police and ask if they should be dispatched. I asked if a door was breeched and they affirmed so I said dispatch them. I also said I would be showing up on scene and described what I'd be driving and wearing as I didn't want to get shot. I arrived shortly thereafter, waited outside the security gate for almost 20 minutes. I called the county police as they were the only ones on duty that night to ask if the officer had already been there. I was told that no one responded because the officer said it didn't meet his criteria! A friggin door breech at a water plant and they didn't respond!!! I later discovered that a door sensor had actually failed and a door hadn't been breeched but, that is not the point. These "security systems" are really only there to make you feel better, policemen think these calls are an annoyance and will not respond unless forced to, even then in my case, they don't even have to do that.

 

[orygun]

Let me tell you a story about a security system. One of my duties at work are to oversee the water plant for drinking water. There was an alarm at the plant one night and it immediately alerted the security company. Their policy is to call their contact, which is me, prior to police and ask if they should be dispatched. I asked if a door was breeched and they affirmed so I said dispatch them. I also said I would be showing up on scene and described what I'd be driving and wearing as I didn't want to get shot. I arrived shortly thereafter, waited outside the security gate for almost 20 minutes. I called the county police as they were the only ones on duty that night to ask if the officer had already been there. I was told that no one responded because the officer said it didn't meet his criteria! A friggin door breech at a water plant and they didn't respond!!! I later discovered that a door sensor had actually failed and a door hadn't been breeched but, that is not the point. These "security systems" are really only there to make you feel better, policemen think these calls are an annoyance and will not respond unless forced to, even then in my case, they don't even have to do that.

I used to manage a transmission rebuilding facility in North East Portland. (I live in Willamette, south of West Linn proper) We had enough false alarms (2) that the company would get a fine from the City, with escalating fines for future events. The phone calls I would get were usually caused by a motion sensor doing something stupid, but sometimes it was a window or door. If I decided the police needed to be involved and it was a false alarm? More fines... I made many trips to No Po in the middle of the night.
However, I think that a system that sends pics/vids to your phone is a great idea. At least you have the ability to see what's going on to be able to decide how to react, or not.
Having good neighbors helps, too.

 

[kmk1012]

I used to manage a transmission rebuilding facility in North East Portland. (I live in Willamette, south of West Linn proper) We had enough false alarms (2) that the company would get a fine from the City, with escalating fines for future events. The phone calls I would get were usually caused by a motion sensor doing something stupid, but sometimes it was a window or door. If I decided the police needed to be involved and it was a false alarm? More fines... I made many trips to No Po in the middle of the night.
However, I think that a system that sends pics/vids to your phone is a great idea. At least you have the ability to see what's going on to be able to decide how to react, or not.
Having good neighbors helps, too.

Funny you mention vids to your phones. I was just discussing this earlier in the week as our security company seems pretty ineffective and could be replace with motion cameras pretty easily.

 

[Koda]

So this guy didn't even have a security system in place?

IIRC he said he just moved in and suspects is was a contractor who had inside knowledge.

He might have hired a moving company, or someone who moves heavy objects like safes.....

 

[Koda]

That's crazy, 90%-95% of safes aren't bolted down? Seriously????

That's the main takeaway I got from this. I'll give the guy some slack because, if I recall correctly he just moved into the house and there's certainly a timeline of vulnerability in any moving situation. That said, people who've invested in a huge nice safe are not worried at all about someone getting into it simply because it weighs so much or they don't want to drill large holes into their walls or anchors in their garage floor. The problem is the larger safes are banners for the type of thief's that know how to get into them (typically home contractors...), it makes no sense to buy a safe of that level to prevent random low level smash and grab thief's who probably never target most neighborhood homes anyways.

 

[DirectDrive]

Looks to me like they used an angle grinder (4-1/2") with cut-off wheels (discs).
Plural because it would take several wheels.

They also had a pry bar of some kind.

Having the safe bolted down is good, but it would not have stopped them.

They had a lot of time.
A good alarm system would have helped and would have drastically reduced their time to work on the safe.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

One thing to consider, safes often aren't found in a house that easily if they are well placed, hidden from plain view etc. I've had some safe professionals tell me that some safe break ins are done by someone they knew or had contact with, who had prior knowledge of the safe being in the house, and where it's placed etc. Sort of like carry, don't make a public display of your security.

 

[TTSX]

Yeah, tipping it over was the weakest link here . No way a mobile cutting tool designed to cut steel could have cut that steel safe while standing up. No way Jose.

 

[nammac]

I think the idea here is that a safe laying on its back has the door supported by the door frame, as opposed to a standing safe, where your fighting gravity and the weight of the door.

My .25 worth and every penny paid for it (Bidenomics)