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I actually joined the Liberal Gun Club a while back (I'm libertarian, more or less). I didn't last long. I tend to always question everything, and found out that forum is a lot less tolerant than this one is. "Liberal" no longer means what it used to mean.
 
even though I lean liberal on some issues, I pretty much only browse around on here, as far as gun forums go. You all know what you're talking about, and tolerate me playing devils advocate, probably more than I should.
 
I think there are a lot of good perspectives being discussed here and I think what is boiling up is that we all agree on 2A as a specific issue.

There is way too much polarization happening in America right now -- too much us vs. them when in reality it's not as much so. As someone else pointed out, when you stop and listen to each other, turns out gun owners of whatever political leanings agree on 2/3's if not even more on 2A.
 
I'm not going to debate the ideological differences between liberals and conservatives, even though as a life long liberal and fairly recently new gun owner, I could say a great deal on this subject. I would instead issue all a personal challenge. What have you actually done in person, physically, in support of the 2nd only? Have you personally attended rallies and/or participated in a non-political activity in support of gun rights and the shooting sports community in hopes of not only improving the public image of such activities, but to also welcome new shooters regardless of their 'other' affiliations? I have, and it's taken a great deal of commitment to the cause not to give into my disdain for many non-related issues; instead I have worked tirelessly, in person with actually efforts, to promote the support for what is probably the most important civil liberty we have.
 
I despise some of the Democrat's gun control plans. But there are other issues too. I'm not a one-issue voter.

We realize that and that's the whole issue.

Even if you like guns, if you vote just like MDA or Everytown, how are you distinguishable from a rabid anti gun zealot?
 
False. Don't confuse health care with health insurance. We have probably the best healthcare system of any nation, probably a lot better. You can get a multi-bypass heart operation within 24 hours, maybe less, if you need it. Many (not all) cancers can be treated and either cured or at least the patient's life prolonged for years. You can get an MRI any time you need one. You may not like the cost, but in most countries you can't get these things without going on a long waiting list if it is available at all. Why is our system so much better? Profit. If people can get rich by coming up with innovative treatments and drugs, then they will work miracles to make it happen, and they do so every day. Take the profit motive away and you'll get an aspirin and a Chaplain when you go to the doctor. Our system is far from perfect, and the high cost is partly (mostly?) the result of government regulations and mandates. If government is so great at health insurance why isn't Obamacare awesome? Why are the premiums unaffordable even though they have huge deductibles?

Obamacare sucks because it was written by the insurance companies and was designed to make them more money, NOT to get people better healthcare.

Costs are out of control because the insurance and drug companies fleece us and the hospitals, and there are no meaningful regulations that even attempt to control it. Pharmaceutical companies use public funds for much of their research, then patent it and made ridiculous profits from us, while selling it for 10, 100, even 1000 times less in other countries.

I had a friend who died last year because she couldn't afford the healthcare that she needed, and she HAD INSURANCE.

You have little choice in our current system, most people's choice of doctor/clinic/hospital is dictated by their insurance company and their "network".

The industry has implanted a fear that any form of universal healthcare would result in long waits, reduced care, fewer innovations, etc. Go actually talk to people that live in Australia, Canada, UK, etc. Most are satisfied, some aren't, some don't think it's comprehensive enough.

Companies aren't going to stop researching drugs just because they can only make 10 billion instead of 100 billion on it. That's ridiculous, they'd still make a lot of money, they're not going to just throw a tantrum and quit making money.
 
Cool, more allies. If they are pulling for 2A rights for everyone and not just a particular subset of society, then more the merrier.

(And I am a single issue voter: absolute maximum personal freedom and minimum government. You know, that notion that in a free society, as long as no one is infringing on another, adults can run their lives as they see fit. Be that how they take care of their family, what guns they own, how they express themselves, who they go to bed with, what they think and believe, and all the rest. :s0155:)
 

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