Liberal Gun Club National Convention

[nonsense]

My opinion?

Politics should be taken out of gun rights debates (among us normal people) so that gun rights is no longer a political issue.

This is absolutely right. By making gun rights an "right wing" political battle it makes it very easy to convince "left wing" voters to turn their backs on it. It's NOT a political party issue, it's an American rights issue. There are so many non-party issues that we as a country should be thinking about. It's easy for some people to pick a side and stick to everything they say, but people from both sides need to start thinking about their rights. Brining the firearms awareness to the left in a non-threatening way can only mean good things for all Americans.

**Do people really believe our economic problems are Obama's?

If Obama came up with a cure for cancer some people would complain about all of the research jobs he just cut. Some people think he's the best thing since sliced cheese, and some think he's the anti-christ. Of course, not everyone is "some people".

 

[JimmyS1985]

Some people just find guns to be offensive and will never look on them with the same love that we do.

I remember showing my firearm to a 55-60 year old Kenyan woman who was a US Citizen. I offered her free ammunition if she went shooting with me and she was not at all enthused about trying my laser sighted Beretta M9 out.

Some people will never like guns at all because they can be tools for killing, they do tend to have an aura around them that other tools do not. But in the looks department, I think my open slide Beretta M9 looks totally bad ***, how can anyone not love it?

 

[Stomper]

My point exactly, which activists in any political direction sometimes miss. I received an e/mail recently from a self identified liberal and member of Amendment 2 Democrats who said she'd be willing to drive halfway across Oregon to spend her money at a gun store that didn't make her feel uncomfortable. I might be a big leftist personally but I still publish right wing writers to make for a more interesting magazine and keep from alienating any one group too much.
RE

OK, I get your point on the "comfort level" now... I can equate it to the way the, "we're here, we're quir, and we're in your face," types and the flamboyant "gay pride" parades (on public streets that children can see) with simulated (and not so simulated) debacherous acts make me turn my nose up at the "main stream" gay rights crowd (Yes I know, not ALL behave this way)... although it's not a life-style I'd want for myself or my kids (BTW- I'd still love and support them regardless), I'm against persecution/descrimination (whole-heartedly) of homosexuals, but on the other hand I'm not for "exhalting the virtues" of ANYONE based on who (or what) they have sex with.... so I now see your point about how some "lefties" being uncomfortable in the "gun scene".

Some people just find guns to be offensive and will never look on them with the same love that we do.

I remember showing my firearm to a 55-60 year old Kenyan woman who was a US Citizen. I offered her free ammunition if she went shooting with me and she was not at all enthused about trying my laser sighted Beretta M9 out.

Some people will never like guns at all because they can be tools for killing, they do tend to have an aura around them that other tools do not. But in the looks department, I think my open slide Beretta M9 looks totally bad ***, how can anyone not love it?

Yes... my made in Italy, Beretta 92F I picked up in '87 whilst stationed in Germany has been with me through thick and thin. I picked up the laser sight for it in '93. It all still works PERFECTLY, and will be kept in my family long after I'm gone!

 

[heron]

Liberals are folks who support all ten amendments of the bill of rights. Who don't just focus on A2 but realize that you need the right to speech, assembly, freedom of worship, protection against unreasonable search and seizure, self-incrimination, a ban on cruel and unusual punishment and arrest without probable cause. We believe that the purpose of our government is to provide for common defense and also to promote the general welfare. How we all get there is up for debate, but if you believe in these fundamental rights, you are a liberal.

That's how I feel too. And hey, a lot of us "liberals" were raised by uber-liberal anti-gun nuts, and some of us are just starting to come around to the idea of gun ownership and gun rights, so give us a chance! I'll be buying my first pistol soon, and I used to be one of those anti-gun type liberals.

 

[Russianfist]

1st, to throw someone in the "liberal" bucket because their views are center or moderate Democrat is kinda silly and disrespectful .

The only reason I am not in the Republican world is because the way the right snuggled up to the religious right in the Reagan era to bolster its numbers.
I am a firm believer that the church should never be closely involved with any political party as it will corrupt and lead to the downfall of our system (not a socialist view but a constitutional view)(RANT off ).

Where the partys were close in many views before we now have a wider and wider span between partys and it's getting worse. The right is growing increasingly conservitive and the left is going just as extreme pushing into socialism.

Look at it this way: Like it or not the Brady bill was created within the Republican party and was an attack on 2A not unlike Tipper Gore's on freedom of speach (and religon) attack with the PMRC through the Democratic party lines.

I think that many moderates and some leftys in the system realize the importance of 2A and are reconsidering where they stand. I would try to attend this convention in the future if it's held on the west coast.

 

[eriknemily]

1st, to throw someone in the "liberal" bucket because their views are center or moderate Democrat is kinda silly and disrespectful .

The only reason I am not in the Republican world is because the way the right snuggled up to the religious right in the Reagan era to bolster its numbers.
I am a firm believer that the church should never be closely involved with any political party as it will corrupt and lead to the downfall of our system (not a socialist view but a constitutional view)(RANT off ).

From a political perspective is "the church" any different from all the other organizations out there that get involved with political parties? Maybe I misunderstood your point but I believe that me being a part of "the church" means to stand up for what I believe to be true and right (morally, socially, etc.). I do that by being involved politically.

 

[shibbershabber]

Im not really looking to add to the argument... But,

I wanted to chime in as a gun loving lefty.


Its true, you can be pro choice, pro labor, support same sex marriage, like the idea of social security and universal healthcare, among other things... AND have twenty guns in your closet along with several thousand rounds of ammo

Im also against wasteful spending, TARP, the Patriot Act, bailouts, oh yeah dont even get me started on the "war on terror" or the "war on drugs"

Now, having said that... I have no explanation for boxer, feinstein, pelosi, or a majority of the current administration OR half of the stupid things some liberals say and do.
But then again, how many conservatives can justify the bush years with a straight face?

 

[Jamie6.5]

But then again, how many conservatives can justify the bush years with a straight face?

The closest I can come to "justification" of GWB is,...

Al Gore and John Kerry.

I have voted both ways and wouldn't hesitate to do so again, But there is no way I could bring myself to vote for either of those clowns. I didn't even vote for Bush the 2nd time.

 

[JimmyS1985]

We'd be better off if you had not voted at all, as well as a majority of Americans who voted for Bush.

Its a moot point, BUsh destroyed the Country from what he inherited yet you still voted for him, its like arguing with your dad if he tells you "I bubblegumed your mom" I mean, what can you say?

 

[Minisocks]

Um, what rhetoric is that?

Answer:

any "liberal" who's supposedly "pro-gun" is confused. in order to be "liberal," you have to believe people are far too stupid to own anything resembling a gun.

this is just a perfect example of how most "liberals" are actually libertarians, but don't know enough to know what they are.

freaken typical "liberal" moron has no clue what he is.

Did that answer your question, Stomper? It's not some sort of anti-safety rhetoric or anything, it's just ignorant people making stupid generalizations.

I know plenty of liberal shooters and many conservative shooters too. I tend to prefer to hang out with the liberal gun-nuts because being a liberal gun-nut doesn't come with all of that conservative baggage. We like shooting because it's fun, not because it's part of our sociopolitical identity.

BTW- I'm GLAD to see a growing number of "left-leaning" citizens rising up to (re)CLAIM their rights as US Citizens!

It's not a "growing number". There has always been pro-gun liberals, you just don't know of them because people tend to socialize with people who are like them. Also, many liberals don't want to out themselves as being shooters because, as bkb0000 very conveniently illustrated, many people believe that if you believe one part of a platform, you believe the whole thing. And, believe me, there's nothing worse than having your friends think you attend tea parties unironically. I suppose in bkb0000's mind—and others like him—you can't pick and choose policies with which you agree or don't agree.

My point exactly, which activists in any political direction sometimes miss. I received an e/mail recently from a self identified liberal and member of Amendment 2 Democrats who said she'd be willing to drive halfway across Oregon to spend her money at a gun store that didn't make her feel uncomfortable.

This is very true and I've heard the same from my female friends.

OK, I get your point on the "comfort level" now...

I'm glad this was an eye-opener for you. There's really no reason why guns have to be entangled with Obama being a secret muslim. Shooting guns is fun and everyone needs an AK. Disentangle guns from "illegal immigration" and "healthcare = socialism" and you might find more liberal allies who'll happily scream at their congressman the next time someone wants to infringe on your gun rights.

 

[eriknemily]

Im not really looking to add to the argument... But,

I wanted to chime in as a gun loving lefty.


Its true, you can be pro choice, pro labor, support same sex marriage, like the idea of social security and universal healthcare, among other things... AND have twenty guns in your closet along with several thousand rounds of ammo

Im also against wasteful spending, TARP, the Patriot Act, bailouts, oh yeah dont even get me started on the "war on terror" or the "war on drugs"

Now, having said that... I have no explanation for boxer, feinstein, pelosi, or a majority of the current administration OR half of the stupid things some liberals say and do.
But then again, how many conservatives can justify the bush years with a straight face?

Sounds more like you lean to a libertarian view point. I find myself heading that direction more every day.

 

[shibbershabber]

Sounds more like you lean to a libertarian view point. I find myself heading that direction more every day.

I suppose I would be more of a social libertarian, I certainly dont agree with mass privitization of services. I like a lot of what Ron Paul says, but then again I agree with Bernie Sanders quite a bit.

I think that the system is set up that way, you can never really get what you want... its a constant compromise, giving up on one issue in order to support another. Its no wonder the country is so divided.

I also feel that we need to allow 3rd parties more access and I would love to see term limits in every elected office limited to one term.

 

[Karma]

Answer:

There's really no reason why guns have to be entangled with Obama being a secret muslim. Shooting guns is fun and everyone needs an AK. Disentangle guns from "illegal immigration" and "healthcare = socialism" and you might find more liberal allies who'll happily scream at their congressman the next time someone wants to infringe on your gun rights.

I guess many people probably do lump gun rights in with other issues. The U.S. was set up to be a free republic. It was meant to have a relatively small government, that was not involved in every aspect of our daily lives. The Second Amendment was written into the Bill of Rights, not because it was fun, but to protect our country from a too powerful government. To protect against threats either foreign or domestic.

Unfortunately, what liberals stand for is a too powerful government. That is probably why people are confused by liberal gun owners. Big governments generally disarm the people so that they can exercise total control.

I am happy to have any American enjoy shooting sports, and enjoy the fun and protection that firearms can offer. That being said, it's important to remember why the founders put the Second Amendment in place. We may have to use it again one day.

 

[Ranb]

I am a pro-choice, athiest, liberal gun owner. I am also one of the few gun owners in Washington state that is willing to work to make silencer use legal in WA. I have no party that represents me and it feels rather lonely out here at times.

Ranb

 

[Karma]

I am a pro-choice, athiest, liberal gun owner. I am also one of the few gun owners in Washington state that is willing to work to make silencer use legal in WA. I have no party that represents me and it feels rather lonely out here at times.

Ranb

Don't feel alone! I don't think any party really represents anyone out there if people are honest with themselves. The elite have become way out of touch with the people they are supposed to represent. The sad part, is there is a huge number of people who still vote party lines blindly, even though it is not in their best interest.

The two major parties are so corrupt, they don't represent any of the normal people out there. Bush sold us out in many ways. He was big corporation. He didn't secure our borders, which was mostly because of oil companies. He put the Patriot Act in place. He overextended us militarily and financially.

Look at what Obama is doing. He is about big corporations, although different ones than Bush. He has shifted so much money to big corporations that it isn't even funny, let alone his allegiance to the unions like SEIU. He reinstated the Patriot Act, even though he condemned Bush for putting it in place to begin with. He refuses to secure the borders, and goes a step further to sue a state for trying to control their illegal problem. He has overextended us even further than Bush did! He has also went further in government control, and into infringing on rights as far as I am concerned.

 

[Ranb]

I agree with what you are saying Karma, but I was mainly speaking of WA State politicians. I can rarely get a straight answer from anyone I write to about various bills, I have been lied to a few times about firearm legalities and it is difficult just arranging a meeting with my Representatives.

I know lots of gun owners, but have only personally met three in WA that want to make silencers legal to use in my state. So many gun owners, so few that give a crap.

Ranb

 

[JimmyS1985]

I am a pro-choice, athiest, liberal gun owner. I am also one of the few gun owners in Washington state that is willing to work to make silencer use legal in WA. I have no party that represents me and it feels rather lonely out here at times.

Ranb

Hey, Im prochoce, athiest, and a liberal gun owner too! But Im from St.Louis

I just got banned from fivesevenforum.com for spreading my liberalism amongst a bunch of right wingers.

 

[A2theK]

Blah Blah Blah who f@**!in cares about the left vs right - focus on the Constitution and Natural Law!

You guys should spend your time watching the soap opera's because everyone sounds like a bunch of old ladies talking about wearing white after Labor Day. What a waste of breath!!!!

The parties were invented to divide and conquer.

 

[Ranb]

I was banned from thefirearmsforum.com for claiming silencers were legal to own and insisting that forum members (including one of the moderators) who tried to claim otherwise were wrong and knew so. It was clear they were giving me a choice between my integrity and patting them on the back. I choose integrity and got banned for my trouble.

Ranb

 

[eriknemily]

Blah Blah Blah who f@**!in cares about the left vs right - focus on the Constitution and Natural Law!

You guys should spend your time watching the soap opera's because everyone sounds like a bunch of old ladies talking about wearing white after Labor Day. What a waste of breath!!!!

The parties were invented to divide and conquer.

Well said. Both parties seem to point out the 'extremes' of the other side but when all is said and done nothing changes. Elect the republicans and you get corruption, massive debt, war. What do you get when you elect democrats? Think of republicans wearing blue instead of red. There's no flippin' difference.