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I usually don't read threads like this because of the amount of silly juvenile comments and insults that too often degenerate to the level a 5th grader telling a kid who was his best friend that morning to meet him on the playground after school. There is some of that here, of course( you know who you are). It's too easy to talk like a punk when you are comfortably seated in front of your computer.
What I find a little surprising and and a little encouraging about the world my grand kids are going to inherit from us is the amount of really thoughtful comments from many of the folks here( you know who you are too). Keep it up.
This forum and the world benefits from your participation.
Before any of you tough guys get your knickers in a wad, I'll let you know that I am neither a "conservative' or a "liberal", but I do support the right of responsible folks to own firearms and I believe we should all be glad for the support of anybody else that agrees with that, regardless of their other politics.

Vaya con dios.

Tom
 
This convention would be very interesting I think. I wouldn't travel to Chicago for it, but I'd sure as **** attend if it was ever in OR or WA.
 
I wonder if they're proud of the decision handed down today by the SCOTUS.
And how all the liberal leaning Judges voted on it.
And if they can justify the mind-set of some of the most powerful people in the land, willing to abrogate the 2ndA and allow infringement to the degree that Chicago has practiced.

The MacDonald decision, with it's split between justices, points out the glaring hypocrisy of gun owners that vote liberal.

All the while touting their own gun ownership.
 
Do all of the conservatives/Republicans on this board agree with every position of their party's leadership? If not, why would you hold others to that standard?
 
Just because some people here are not single-issue citizens and voters, I'd be careful calling us hypocrites.

Voting for candidates based on their stand on a wide variety of issues does not call someone's commitment to the 2A to be "hypocritical".

I actually think what is happening is that the "liberal" stance on firearms and the 2A is getting redefined due to the fact that so many "liberals" or "democrats" stance on firearms is shifting to a more positive one. That is a good thing. Witness: within 48 hours of Eric Holder making the statement about redoing the AWB, a very large number (I forget now) of Democratic lawmakers signed a letter to Obama telling him, in effect, not to go there.

Finally, I believe the "threats" to the 2A are vastly overwrought. See the hysteria when Obama was elected, see the steady stream of pro-2A Supreme Court rulings, etc. I'm much, much more concerned about the economic future of our country...so that influences how I vote. This doesn't make me a hypocrite.
 
I don't know Zach. But that's not the question I would be asking about this topic. HERE, ON A GUN BOARD.

Instead, how about asking how many liberals/progressives/libertarians/conservatives/fence sitters/socialists/communists,...
VOTE THEIR GUN RIGHTS?!?!?!

When you know that a presidential candidate will nominate, or has nominated a SC Justice that votes to support gun bans, yet you claim to support the 2ndA, and all that it stands for,... Why would you vote for that person.
Same goes for Congressional members that support those judicial nominees.
Gun ownership by citizens constitutes the teeth of the protection for all other God-given rights as outlined in the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The founding fathers said so specifically.

Please justify voting for a candidate that champions "rights" that have no teeth.
Nobody wants a civil war, or even bloody unrest. And for those that would abrogate the rest of the BoR, and other laws recognizing citizen rights, (be they Dem/Pub or other) the 2ndA is the one they need to get rid of first, to prevent that bloodshed and civil war, and get on with their tyrannical agenda.

Maybe the liberals aren't the tyrants, but to do so paves the way for any that follow, regardless of their political party.
Yet, consistently the majority of liberal democrats support those politicians that support abrogation of the 2ndA.

This is a gun board. As such, explanations here, about political positions surrounding gun rights need to be explained before all others.
 
My problem is that if the lefties are A2 supporter than how can you support the lefties that are NOT A2 supporter, Obama and the likes. It all most seems a little 2 faced. I'm all for the numbers in support, but it has to be 100% support!!! Can't waiver when things go bad. Or when you get upset over a tree being cut. Just say out of my face, that's my 2 cents.
 
Finally, I believe the "threats" to the 2A are vastly overwrought. See the hysteria when Obama was elected, see the steady stream of pro-2A Supreme Court rulings, etc. I'm much, much more concerned about the economic future of our country...so that influences how I vote.
Emphasis mine

Your concern was about the country's economic future?

So you voted against economic solvency AND gun rights.

This doesn't make me a hypocrite.
So you say, here on a gun board.
Judging by your moniker here UG, it's fairly obvious why you voted liberal.
Regardless of your stance on gun rights or the economy.
 
One reason I vote for the democrats every election cycle, is I dont really care for Republicans Pro-Forced Childbirth stance (aka Prolife) I gather they want to force women to birth children they otherwise would not have which is why I think they should call it Pro-Forced Childbirth.

Also Keynesian economics benefits more people than supply side economics.

I find it really hypocritical when Republicans are not BIG Business CEO's and vote for Supply side economics, and deregulation of wall street and industry, I think its because they have a vague notion that someday they will join the ranks of the elite richest %1, even though the opposite is true.
Or when they accuse Obama of violating the constitution, and GWB's Alberto Gonzales argued that the constitution does not include Habeas Corpus as a fundamental right of Americans.
 
Rhetoric notwithstanding, IME there is virtually no correlation between degree of "left-leaning" or "liberalism" or "progressivism" and a proclivity towards personal firearm ownership. Political boosterism is just that - Americans vote for candidates, not constitutional rights.

The converse case regarding "rightists" and ownership might be more strongly correlated, however.

As far as all this broad-brush insult-hurling goes, youse guys really should switch off the AM and get out a little more.

Me, I'm just glad that Obama reversed Reagan's ban on CCW in National Parks.

Actually the whole story; the Bush administration, reversing a longstanding Reagan ban rule, issued the rule to allow concealed weapons in national parks for those with permits. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Parks Conservation Assn. sued Interior Secretary Kenneth Salazar, and U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kennedy granted the injunction to temporary injunction by a U.S. District Court judge in Washington, D.C., restoring rules that ban loaded, concealed firearms in our national parks.
Obama wanted the credit reform legislation passed, but Senate Republicans, working with new Democratic colleagues from more-rural states, inserted language in the bill giving gun owners the right to carry concealed weapons into the national parks, Obama signed it, but lets give credit where credit's due...
 
One reason I vote for the democrats every election cycle, <snip>
So regardless of political stance of a candidate on the various issues we are faced with, you vote democrat.
Because you believe that, by default, they will support your best interests.
So you don't consider your right to own and carry a gun very important do you?
There has been many a liberal around here that has accused the conservatives of voting a straight party ticket, aka "drinking the kool-aide."
But yet the only person (and I suspect there are more) that admits it is a democrat.
I have voted both sides of the ticket more times than I can count because I believe that not every person of either party can adequately represent my interests.

You are entitled to do as you choose.
I suggest you might consider who stands up for your ability to keep and bear arms in the top three.
 
Face it, the republicans and democrats are the "left" and "right" sides of a single party system.

It is not hypocritical for a left to want gun rights.

I think Trlsmn said it earlier in this thread, the more people on the left that are reached, the better. Because preaching gun rights to the right is like preaching to the choir, indeed.

My opinion?

Politics should be taken out of gun rights debates (among us normal people) so that gun rights is no longer a political issue.
 
My opinion?

Politics should be taken out of gun rights debates (among us normal people) so that gun rights is no longer a political issue.

+1, I hate having to pretend to hate Obama whenever I walk in my local gun shop just because all the other firearms enthusiasts do so. TO me its another one of my many hobbies, none of my other hobbies are nearly as politicized or have as Much washington Lobbying for them, such as, fast cars, RC Cars, RC Airplanes, Building Computers for Benchmarking, Collecting Air Jordans or being a Magician. Two of those hobbys, RC AIrplanes and Fast cars can be very dangerous like a firearm is, but is generally not if proper safety precautions are taken.

ANyways 6.5, I try to encourage other people in my family on the left to be pro-gun is the best way to help it out, your not going to get anymore votes for guns trying to convince another Republican. But I can respect the anti-gun liberals for beleiving what they beleive, I am very sorry not one of my favorite SC justices voted against the handgun ban today and it directly affects me since Illinois is just across the river, other than this one ruling, I generally agree with them on everything else, and disagree with the other 5 on everything.

You know if you have a loaded firearm in your car in Missouri, even without a permit, thats completely legal. Cross over to Illinois, and your a wanted felon.
 
Emphasis mine

Your concern was about the country's economic future?

So you voted against economic solvency AND gun rights.

The Recession began in 2007. The Financial collapse happened in September of 2008, which then triggered the Great Recession. The tax cuts (which mostly benefited the richest 1% of Americans) that turned a hundred billion surplus into a trillion dollar deficit happened mostly between 2001-2003. I did not vote for George W. Bush, so I did not vote for economic insolvency.**

I saw little difference between McCain and Obama on gun rights, so I didn't vote against gun rights either. Argue what you will, I saw them both playing it for a political football.

**Do people really believe our economic problems are Obama's? He's been in office about a year and a half--not the time it takes to turn around a nationl economy. I also don't blame George W. Bush, he was only in for 8 years. The fact is, the hollowing out of our economy started under Reagan and was continued by Dems and Reps alike...it's taken 30 plus years to do what we've done: crumbling infrastructure, a disappearing manufacturing base, stagnant wages for 90% of America, double-digit unemployment, loss of healthcare and pensions, massive inequality, etc. We tried the supply-sider/globalization at all costs economic strategy and it failed.us.miserably.
 
Considering I get about $400 a year in dividends from my stocks, I fail to see how Palins want for a cut in capital gains will benefit me, let a lone a majority of Americans who spend their money on bills and living necessities, as opposed to investing in the stock market.

Atleast when CEO pay was 525:1 under Clinton at the peak of the dot com bubble, our Country was pulling in &#37;28 Capital Gains tax, as opposed to Bush's %15 which probably made the difference between marginal surpluses and enormous deficits.
 
I think this convention is great and will go a long way in letting our elected officials know that they have many voting liberal constituents who do not support unreasonable gun control laws. I hope these groups grow and become noticed. And this is coming from a Republican. Yes, we do have common ground in some areas. And this is not the only one.

:s0155:

With the current controling party in congress, the only reason the AWB and other restrictions did not go forward is some members of the Democratic party opposed them.
 
The Recession began in 2007. The Financial collapse happened in September of 2008, which then triggered the Great Recession. The tax cuts (which mostly benefited the richest 1% of Americans) that turned a hundred billion surplus into a trillion dollar deficit happened mostly between 2001-2003. I did not vote for George W. Bush, so I did not vote for economic insolvency.**

I saw little difference between McCain and Obama on gun rights, so I didn't vote against gun rights either. Argue what you will, I saw them both playing it for a political football.

**Do people really believe our economic problems are Obama's? He's been in office about a year and a half--not the time it takes to turn around a nationl economy. I also don't blame George W. Bush, he was only in for 8 years. The fact is, the hollowing out of our economy started under Reagan and was continued by Dems and Reps alike...it's taken 30 plus years to do what we've done: crumbling infrastructure, a disappearing manufacturing base, stagnant wages for 90% of America, double-digit unemployment, loss of healthcare and pensions, massive inequality, etc. We tried the supply-sider/globalization at all costs economic strategy and it failed.us.miserably.

Actually, I think it started in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Bank destroying our gold based currency and the subsequent extreme inflation and debt that has occurred ever since!!!
 
Emphasis mine

Your concern was about the country's economic future?

So you voted against economic solvency AND gun rights.

The 8 years prior to Obama were hardly shining examples of "economic solvency". VERY far from it. The seeds sown then are growing which is making matters even worse now.

There isn't much difference between the Republicans & Democrats when it comes to spending, except what it's spent on, and the fact that the Republicans will tell you repeatedly they are "fiscal conservatives" as they spend spend spend...

Going back to the original posting, there is a local gun store that I avoid as much as I can because of the anti-Obama & anti-liberal signs/posters they have posted there.

One of the first shooting classes I attended had people spouting stuff similar to that on this forum. It does happen, and will drive non-conservatives away from proper firearms training. I just realize that they are wrong and I don't have to point it out to them. :s0131:
 
How ENVIOUS I am of "Conservatives" who have never had to pinch their nose and vote for the "lesser of the weevils" in hopes of saving the Nation. I have strong beliefs, but never have been able to vote any straight party ticket. And please, don't call me a "Liberal." I am a FLAMING RADICAL on most issues.......................elsullo :angry:
 
One of the first shooting classes I attended had people spouting stuff similar to that on this forum. It does happen, and will drive non-conservatives away from proper firearms training. I just realize that they are wrong and I don't have to point it out to them. :s0131:

My point exactly, which activists in any political direction sometimes miss. I received an e/mail recently from a self identified liberal and member of Amendment 2 Democrats who said she'd be willing to drive halfway across Oregon to spend her money at a gun store that didn't make her feel uncomfortable. I might be a big leftist personally but I still publish right wing writers to make for a more interesting magazine and keep from alienating any one group too much.
RE
 

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