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It may be too coarse/heavy gage of wire in the spring too? That doesn't make sense that the manufacturer wouldn't know what kind of spring was appropriate.

Question @UnionMillsNW ...Have you tried pushing the bullet into the case by hand against the edge of the bench? I would think it would be pretty easy if you getting them pushed in by the tube spring.

I don't recall, are you trimming cases to within .002"-.003"?
He is not reloading, these were some Freedom Munitions he purchased. They didnt have any real crimp as well as a light crimp ring. Dyjital Re-crimped a bunch for him to see if it fixed the issue. Not sure if he roll crimped or used the factory crimp die or what, as he switched over to another brand of equipment. Looking at the pics I think they need a bit more roll in the crimp but that's just me.
 

Mikej

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He is not reloading, these were some Freedom Munitions he purchased. They didnt have any real crimp as well as a light crimp ring. Dyjital Re-crimped a bunch for him to see if it fixed the issue. Not sure if he roll crimped or used the factory crimp die or what, as he switched over to another brand of equipment. Looking at the pics I think they need a bit more roll in the crimp but that's just me.

That's right! Derp, I'd forgot. After four pages pages, and all.....
 
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Before I started trimming the spring I would find out what effect loading one less round in the magazine tube has on the problem.

Has it been established what the actual diameter of these bullets is? Is it possible they loaded these cartridge's with 9mm (.355 diameter) bullets as opposed to .38 (.357 diameter)? Yes .002 can make a difference.

The photos still look under crimped. If those are 9mm bullets and were loaded into cases that were prepped with a standard .38 spl / .357 expander plug and / or if the cases were not sized correctly the case would not be providing adequate neck tension. Proper bullet retention requires a case to be sized slightly under bullet diameter, expanded and belled no more than necessary for bullet seating and a secure crimp.
 
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So... Down in the shop this morning I rounded up some bullets and cases, took some measurements and tried some things.

To start off I rounded up and measured the following bullets.
.3555 dia Berrys 9mm 146 gr rn
.3572 dia Rainier Balistics .38 125 gr hp
.3572 dia Berrys .38 125 gr fp
.3571 dia Rainier Balistics .38 158 gr fp
.3572 dia Remington .38 95 gr jhp
.3579 dia Homemade .38 jacketed semi wadcutter various weights

I tried to by hand insert the above bullets into the cases below.

Unprimed Unfired cases
9mm Winchester ----------- 9mm -no .38 -no
.38 Spl Winchester -------- 9mm -yes .38 -no
.357 Magnum Norma ----9mm -yes .38 -no

Miscellaneous as fired unresized cases.
9mm ------------9mm -no .38, no
.38----------------9mm -yes .38, 2 of 10 try's
.357--------------9mm -yes .38, 6 of 10 try's

Miscellaneous sized
9mm, .38, .357 9mm -no .38 -no

The instances where the bullets presses into the cases by hand required under 2 pounds of pressure, in most cases (no pun) only a few ounces.

Next I tried to press the bullets of some of my handloads deeper into their case by hand pressing them against my postal scale. I exceeded 15 pounds of pressure without moving the bullet a thousandth of an inch deeper.

IMG-2058.JPG IMG-2059.JPG IMG-2060.JPG IMG-2061.JPG IMG-2062.JPG IMG-2063.JPG
 
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So... Based on past experience and the experiments I tried above I would recommend not to modify your rifle and spend more time looking at the ammo in question. I suspect that the brass they used was not sized correctly and /or the bullets they used were intended for use in 9mm ammo.

BTW The reloaded ammo I tried to press the bullets deeper into had no crimp groove. On my homemade jacketed bullets sometimes I add the crimp groove , sometimes I don't, with most of my bullets its mostly cosmetic.
 

UnionMillsNW

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My offer still stands.......
another thought would be to see if shortening the magazine spring to lighten the tension a little would help. I did notice though that the crimp ring on the extreme bullets you have is not as deep looking as it should be. Maybe just a tad more roll crimp is needed to contact the crimp ring edge and stop them from setting back.

I appreciate the offer.

I don't think it's a spring issue as I'm loading 38s and the rifle is chambered/rated for 357 so there should be plenty of room left in the tube and (more importantly) it's a Cimarron so if there is an issue with the spring I'd rather just have them send me a new one.

Perhaps more crimp...perhaps better sizing. I'll keep the Freedom Munitions ammo to shoot through my revolver and occasionally plink out of the 1873...otherwise I'll try to stick to factory new ammo (too bad most of mine is soft lead point. doh!)
 

UnionMillsNW

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Update: I loaded the tube with 10 Winchester (factory ammo) 38spl rounds on Saturday.

Cycled the gun today and found one round slightly depressed. Not enough to jam the gun like the Freedom Munitions but still not good.

At this point I may need to write Cimarron. It's a great gun to shoot but a gun that can't be left loaded is essentially a pretty club.

A931BFEC-310E-4665-B3D0-242F77AE5E94.jpeg
 

oremike

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IMHO it's not the rifle, it is the bullets. Doesn't matter if they are Winchester or someone else's the bullets need a crimp groove and a be crimped in it. On a side note the Lee factory crimp die claims to be able to crimp deep enough to engrave a crimp groove into the bullet.
 
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...otherwise I'll try to stick to factory new ammo (too bad most of mine is soft lead point. doh!)
What's wrong with soft lead point? Are they jacketed Are these jacketed soft points?

Theirs also a likelihood that the rounds are not compacting in the tube but rather during the process of being chambered.
 

UnionMillsNW

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IMHO it's not the rifle, it is the bullets. Doesn't matter if they are Winchester or someone else's the bullets need a crimp groove and a be crimped in it. On a side note the Lee factory crimp die claims to be able to crimp deep enough to engrave a crimp groove into the bullet.

That was my initial thought but I've tried two or three brands of ammunition and they have all compacted. This rifle was designed so cowboys could reload their cases while out on the prairie. I doubt Cimarron (or Uberti) would be successful with a rifle that required only ammo loaded by the Hulk.

What's wrong with soft lead point? Are they jacketed Are these jacketed soft points?

Theirs also a likelihood that the rounds are not compacting in the tube but rather during the process of being chambered.

I tried soft tip semi jacketed rounds and the lead deformed in the tube.

Any other firearm and I would blame the cycling (I've seen it with my 1911); however the 1873 uses an elevator to lift the rounds up from the tube to inline with the barrel, where they are then gently pushed forward directly into the chamber. It's as gentle as if baby jesus had lifted the rounds. I can look down into the receiver. The rounds are coming out of the tube already compacted.
 
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