Let's talk about primers

[Cj10488]

Yes I have lots of questions. But like they say no dumb question only dumb answers lol.

So with all the choices in primers out there does it really make a difference between brands? I know there is a diff between magnum and regular but I'm more interested in brand differences. I have been solely using Winchester WLR to reload both the 223 and 308. Haven't really had a problem. I went to buy more primers yesterday and noticed that they are all pretty much 3$ per 100 so it got me thinking.

Is there really a difference?
Is there really a point in using brand x over brand y?

Let's hear your thoughts..

Again sorry for all the questions. I figured Id keep the threads separate so others can get the answers to my "dumb" questions.

Thanks
James

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[turbo_vanner]

some brands burn hotter than others, and some brands like federal and cci have specific bench rest or competition primers, but i have no idea if they make any difference, or how minute it is. I also don't know which brands are on the hotter or cooler side of the spectrum, i'm pretty new to all this.

That said, for accuracy, I try to use the same style each time, which happens to be WSR and WLR, but I'll do cci or federal for plinkers if they're on sale or have a rebate.

 

[LSWC]

For my use which is mainly practice and fun I'll use whatever is a good price. CCI, Remington, Federal, S&B, and most recently Fiocchi. I'll even substitute magnum primers for standard if the price is good or if availability on standard primers is nill. No issues with any listed for any of my handguns or rifles (380/9mm/40SW/45/357/223/762x39)

Some are harder than others, and some are more consistent round to round. For my use I can't see/feel a difference other than the price I pay.

 

[Cj10488]

Sounds like this was a pretty good topic to start. For me logically I don't see how there can really be much of a difference between brands. They either go bang or they don't. For me locally they are all the same price except the magnums which I believe are 29 cents more per 100 than standard. I almost got a couple boxes of CCI 200s yesterday but decided to stick with what I have been using.

Thanks
James

 

[jeffdpdx]

Being new to reloading I have only reloaded pistol ammo - 9mm and 45acp.
I have had no issues with Winchester or CCI pistol primers. I buy Winchester when available.
You are correct ether they go bang or not.

I think if you are developing a rifle load for accuracy and load repeat-ability one would test various primer brands as well as brass, bullets, powder.....
But for me it probably doesn't make one bit of difference what primer I use.

 

[gmerkt]

I think for 90% of shooters who reload, there is no functional difference from brand to brand.

When loading for semi-autos with floating firing pins, harder primers are desired. Like CCI.

For storage purposes, Federal are packed in larger containers and therefore take up more space.

Some brands of primers fit tighter than others.

I don't like to use magnum primers vice standard primers because I've read that they can increase pressures. I've also read that if you do substitute mag primers for standard, keep your charge levels below maximum.

Personally, I don't favor Remington because usually they are a bit more expensive for no good reason. I never got into memorizing their number system either. The Remington small rifle primer situation is a little hazy. 6-1/2 is listed as small rifle; 7-1/2 is shown as small rifle BR (Bench Rest). But I've read that 6-1/2 was actually designed for lower pressure small rifle, like Hornet and shouldn't be used in .223 (for example). So I just don't use either one.

S&B. I've liked these for loading .308 and .30-06, no problems. Didn't like them with my .35 Rem, carbon trace in firing pin indentation made me think, "soft cup."

Winchester. Over the years, I've used these the most. My impression is their cups are a bit on the soft side, easier to seat. I got one batch of 1,000 LR that were undersized, had to use those up in military brass that I hadn't yet swaged the primer pockets in. Used to be WW primers were nickel plated. Maybe 15 years ago, they dropped this practice and now the cups are not plated, just yellow brass natural finish. I think the nickel plated version fit tighter, stands to reason a layer of plating adds a bit to size.

Russian primers, I don't buy them but got some in a package deal. Haven't fired any yet but they fit well when I loaded some large pistol.

Having said that I've used WW the most, the only kind I buy now when given the choice is CCI. Supply shortages cause changes in buying habits.

I'm not discriminating enough of a shooter to notice things like primer shot to shot consistency, temperature sensitivity or any of that noise. I sometimes work up loads using a chrono, but I've never been interested in enough to test primer variations. It's enough for me to find a good load with powder type and charge variations.

There was an interesting article in one of the gun magazines that I read, maybe 15 or more years ago. They ran tests of all the major brands and reported their findings. I couldn't come up with a reference now at this late date.

 

[crossbow5]

There is or was a large study on primers that was recorded on "Survivors SKS Boards" by "Frisco Pete" on 6/3/2009 which was largely based on the May 2009 article in Guns Magazine by John Barsness. i have a copy but it is rather long. @gmerkt provided a lot of good information in the post above. I have used a lot of the Remington 7-1/2 in .223 and they work well with Lake City brass, especially the first reload. I use Winchester, CCI, Federal and Remington primers.

 

[bbbass]

Let's don't!

Use CCI and forget about the rest!!!

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I agree with bbbass. Mainly because thats what ive used for over 20 years. Also because Winchester has had some major problems with theirs. They have been known to etch bolt faces. Theres been recalls on them, regarding this. CCI does everything i expect a good primer to do, and has done so for a long time.. Why change?

 

[P7M13]

@crossbow5 & @gmerkt , if you have a link to the article, I would greatly appreciate it.
Good info - I use all the brands mentioned above.
My only caveat : primer cup hardness on striker fired pistols. If the metal is too hard/thick, you can fail to ignite.
Back when I owned a Steyr M40 pistol, I experienced light primer strikes due to the hard cup. Changed brand have have not had a problem since. That was 18 years ago. Cannot remember which brand, and except for my R51s, don't have any striker fired guns. I prefer metal framed, hammer fired pistols.

 

[crossbow5]

@crossbow5 & @gmerkt , if you have a link to the article, I would greatly appreciate it.
Good info - I use all the brands mentioned above.
My only caveat : primer cup hardness on striker fired pistols. If the metal is too hard/thick, you can fail to ignite.
Back when I owned a Steyr M40 pistol, I experienced light primer strikes due to the hard cup. Changed brand have have not had a problem since. That was 18 years ago. Cannot remember which brand, and except for my R51s, don't have any striker fired guns. I prefer metal framed, hammer fired pistols.

I might be able to send you a pdf, but this is several pages and I would probably do a PM due to the length. For some unknown reason my computer will not let pdf's stay open. I am not computer savy enough to send you a link.

 

[Fishjager]

Funny I used CCI in my Dillon RF100 the primer tube loading machine. Some of them were out of round and bent the tube when I was installing them in the regular primer tube on the machine. I called Dillon and they told me they suggest not using CCI with their machines. I switched to Federal and Fiocchi instead. To each his own though. A couple of years ago we did not care what primers were out there. We bought them.

 

[P7M13]

I might be able to send you a pdf, but this is several pages and I would probably do a PM due to the length. For some unknown reason my computer will not let pdf's stay open. I am not computer savy enough to send you a link.

Sent you an upload location link.

 

[Cj10488]

If you could send me the link too that would be great. I can also upload it and post it for others if you like.

Thanks
James

 

[crossbow5]

If you could send me the link too that would be great. I can also upload it and post it for others if you like.

Thanks
James

I was able to upload a pdf to a Google folder for @P7id10T , maybe he can send you a link.

 

[P7M13]

I've downloaded it and exported it to a DOCX file. It's now 46kb. Will finish the formatting tonight & upload.
Maintaining the weblink to SKS and credit to Pete.

 

[gmerkt]

Good info - I use all the brands mentioned above.
My only caveat : primer cup hardness on striker fired pistols. If the metal is too hard/thick, you can fail to ignite.
Back when I owned a Steyr M40 pistol, I experienced light primer strikes due to the hard cup. Changed brand have have not had a problem since. That was 18 years ago. Cannot remember which brand, and except for my R51s, don't have any striker fired guns. I prefer metal framed, hammer fired pistols.

Recently, I got 1,200 CCI small pistol magnum primers in a package deal. They'd be okay in moderate 9mm loads (for example) but I just didn't want to use them. I advertised for a possible trade and a guy came forward with 900 S&B large rifle primers plus 300 CCI large pistol primers. He said he'd gotten the S&B's to use in a Glock 10mm and they wouldn't fire. He was advised to try these by a friend due to lower cost. Penny wise and pound foolish, I'd say. Maybe if he'd tried S&B large PISTOL primers, he wouldn't have had problems. But it's true, some primers that should be appropriate to a given load can be troublesome in striker fired pistols. I have two Glocks, have never had primer issues with them. Or any other issues for that matter.

Oh, and yes, I know I traded down on those 900 S&B LR primers for CCI but that's okay.

Reloaders should be aware that factory ammo could have anything in it in the way of primers. They aren't necessarily limited to what the "book" says or even what is commercially available to reloaders. The factory is going to use whatever works best in a given cartridge. For example, I've been told that Federal uses small rifle primers in .327 Fed Mag. I know from frustrating experience that this is a kind of finicky cartridge to load and only likes certain combinations. So apparently has Federal found this out and one of their answers is to use small rifle rather than small pistol primers in it.

 

[oremike]

I mostly use CCI primers, I'll use Winchester for Cowboy action type loads because a lot of those shooters like to lighten their hammer spring. I can't remember where but I did see a warning to not use Federal primers in progressive presses. <shrug> I've used them with no bad things happening. One thing about Magnum vs. standard primers, it's not the case that needs the magnum primer it's the powder. I'll use .357 Magnum as an example, a full house heavy bullet load using Winchester 296 needs a small pistol magnum primer. That same case loaded with a midrange target type load using Unique for example will get no benefit from the magnum primer and a standard is just fine.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

straight up, i use winchester and CCI.


i have used tula and s&b because thats all i could find at the time... every round went bang!

 

[DizzyJ]

I don't use Winchester because they've got a rep for being soft and limiting how hot you can load. I'm probably going to leave the CCI 400s for the same reason in that the primers crater sooner than the bench rest or 41s will. Working up loads more recently, I've had really good luck with the federal Ar match primers. These are for the small rifle primer cases. .223, .224 Valkyrie and my 6.5 creedmoor use them. For large rifle I've used the BR2 primers.

Really depends on what you load for, how fast you want to go, what your expectations are for the cartridge.

For 9mm pistol, I load up the 500s by the thousands. Then again, I don't load those too hot, and the accuracy is there for what I do.

I did a test a few years ago with about 9 or so different primers ONLY altering the primers and looking for differences in velocity. What I found was not only velocity and velocity spread were affected, but also groups size. Sometimes quite noticeably.

I've still got the targets and pictures somewhere. What sucks is when photobucket decided to charge to let you share pictures. My big writeup was there with words, but the pictures no longer showed up. That was quite irritating.