Leslie Stahl of CBS News Investigates the Rem 700 & a Teen's Manslaughter Conviction Tonight 7pm

[orygun]

If I remember correctly, there have been more than one instance where Remington 700s went off as the safety was being moved from Safe to Fire. Yeah, the gun shouldn't have been pointed at another person, but that's not a manslaughter case, let alone murder.
I'll do some digging and see if I can back up my memory.

 

[orygun]

Here.
Huge fix for the country's most popular gun

 

[U8395279]

Schitt, I got faked out !

Dudes, it is NOT FAKE NEWS. Did no one even bother to click on the link in my original post?? There is a detailed preview of this news report there. The new story does exist.

Apparently it was orignally scheduled to be aired tonight. CBS has done this in the past on 60 minutes, when there is a new, late breaking story that they deem is more important to report on.

No doubt the news story will air on 60 Minutes another night. It is not a timely issue, like all this building outrage in the press this weekend over Trump's immigration order.

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[U8395279]

If I remember correctly, there have been more than one instance where Remington 700s went off as the safety was being moved from Safe to Fire. Yeah, the gun shouldn't have been pointed at another person, but that's not a manslaughter case, let alone murder.
I'll do some digging and see if I can back up my memory.

Yes, there are such documented cases just like you describe. People took the safety off in order to unlock the bolt so that the gun could be unloaded. This type of problem was documented in a number of cases, in a NBC investigative news report back in 2014. However, there have also been other additional circumstances, under which the gun would go off without the trigger ever being touched.

This investigative news report is available online. So anyone here can watch it on YouTube. The video does have some actual footage of some these malfunctions being reproduced and demonstrated.

The problem is real.

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[U8395279]

Too bad for that kid.
Wonder why that prosecutor was so aggressive in asking for murder ?

During the trial, the prosecutor presented evidence of jealously by the older brother, towards his younger brother. He quoted statements that he made about this younger brother, which they said illustrated existing hostility between them.

However, the defense successfully argued that what the prosecution brought up was nothing more than typical sibling rivalry, and that it was being totally blown out of all proper proportion and context by the prosecution.

The jury thus rejected the notion that the killing was premeditated, and instead decided it must have been a spur of the moment crime of passion.

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[mjbskwim]

So you have never seen a Remington 700 fire all by itself, without the trigger being touched? I have witnessed it happen twice in my lifetime. Both rifles, however, did have their trigger pulls adjusted. In one case, the adjustment was made by a man taking a gunsmithing correspondence class. He had offered the adjustment free to a friend, who thought that he was getting a real good deal.

There is a BIG difference from a legal standpoint of deliberately pulling a trigger and shooting someone, and having the gun accidentally discharge on its own, without the trigger ever being touched.


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Aaaaaaannnnnnddddddd.......
WTF has that got to do with NEVER POINTING THE MUZZLE AT ANYONE?
IF you have a Remington 700 then always make sure you muzzle is pointed up or down or at your target.
Kinda simple

 

[bbbass]

During the trial, the prosecutor presented evidence of jealously by the older brother, towards his younger brother. He quoted statements that he made about this younger brother, which they said illustrated existing hostility between them.

However, the defense successfully argued that what the prosecution brought up was nothing more than typical sibling rivalry, and that it was being totally blown out of all proper proportion and context by the prosecution.

The jury thus rejected the notion that the killing was premeditated, and instead decided it must have been a spur of the moment crime of passion.

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Based on the info here, it's patently ridiculous that the jury brought back any conviction. Either there is more to the story, the judge made a mistake in jury instruction, or the prosecutor is very persuasive.

Are we now going to prosecute EVERY gun accident?

 

[Brutus57]

Yeah, I got faked out, as well. farging bastidges!!!!


Brutus Out

 

[Hop Sing]

Here is Remington's web site regarding what to check/do.

Remington Recall

 

[Quartermaster]

How could the 700 be at fault? Somebody had to load it and point it. At the very least safety rules were ignored and manslaughter seems appropriate.

https://xmprecall.remington.com/pdfs/xmprecall-notice.pdf

 

[slimmer13]

https://xmprecall.remington.com/pdfs/xmprecall-notice.pdf

I'm well aware of the recall, it doesnt matter IMO. The guy still pointed a loaded gun at another person. The rifle didn't get itself out and load itself before it fired itself. Faulty or not, it is still an inanimate object.

If you kill someone through negligence (which ignoring safety rules is), it should be manslaughter.

 

[orygun]

Aaaaaaannnnnnddddddd.......
WTF has that got to do with NEVER POINTING THE MUZZLE AT ANYONE?
IF you have a Remington 700 then always make sure you muzzle is pointed up or down or at your target.
Kinda simple

No matter what gun you have, you should NEVER point the gun at anyone, even if it's unloaded.

 

[U8395279]

Aaaaaaannnnnnddddddd.......
WTF has that got to do with NEVER POINTING THE MUZZLE AT ANYONE?
IF you have a Remington 700 then always make sure you muzzle is pointed up or down or at your target.
Kinda simple

So let us clarify your position here. You are apparently saying that it is totally OK with you for firearms manufacturers to sell guns to the public that will go off and shoot without the trigger ever being touched.

You are perfectly fine with firearms having such a defect, and don't care if such defects help bring about deaths and injuries?? And that a gun maker should do nothing at all to correct such defects?

This certainly appears to be your position.

You sure must own some truly awful firearms, if you are OK with guns having such an egregious flaw as this.

Some of the rest of us, however, have higher quality standards regarding guns.
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[jsparks747]

It could be seen from 3 sides.

#1 - kid's fault: He shouldn't be handling a gun without his parent there. He shouldn't have pointed the muzzle towards his friend

#2 - Dad's fault: Dad did a bad job of teaching his son gun safety, stored a gun loaded and with the bolt, either kept the gun safe unlocked, didn't have a safe, or didn't change the password once a month to keep meet ups like this from happening. Dad didn't send back Remington 700 after the trigger recall.

#3 - the gun: Everyone has heard of the Remington trigger recall. We all know it happened, we all know people got killed from it. Only way this could have happened relates to the last line of #2

 

[jsparks747]

Seems like all prosecutors are aggressive nowadays.

Well... certain prosecutors. My dad isn't aggressive (I don't think) but he does work strictly on gang crimes, murders, etc.

 

[Diamondback]

Well... certain prosecutors. My dad isn't aggressive (I don't think) but he does work strictly on gang crimes, murders, etc.

Which suggests another theory: prosecutors in the Minor Leagues with an inferiority-complex trying to prove themselves equals to the Majors like your dad. See also "McCoy, Jack, major-league prosecutor with a minor-league 'charge everyone you see for everything in the book and let the juries sort it out' attitude."

 

[U8395279]

It could be seen from 3 sides.

#1 - kid's fault: He shouldn't be handling a gun without his parent there. He shouldn't have pointed the muzzle towards his friend

#2 - Dad's fault: Dad did a bad job of teaching his son gun safety, stored a gun loaded and with the bolt, either kept the gun safe unlocked, didn't have a safe, or didn't change the password once a month to keep meet ups like this from happening. Dad didn't send back Remington 700 after the trigger recall.

#3 - the gun: Everyone has heard of the Remington trigger recall. We all know it happened, we all know people got killed from it. Only way this could have happened relates to the last line of #2

No, there was a 4th side: that it was deliberate murder. That the boy murdered his younger brother due to sibling rivalry. That was the side that the prosecutor took.

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[jsparks747]

Which suggests another theory: prosecutors in the Minor Leagues with an inferiority-complex trying to prove themselves equals to the Majors like your dad. See also "McCoy, Jack, major-league prosecutor with a minor-league 'charge everyone you see for everything in the book and let the juries sort it out' attitude."

I would agree. Young lawyers, fresh out of college ("Tipsy Tummies" as my dad calls them because they usually throw up at their first crime scene" do try to prove themselves so they can get into a better job and have a good record. Older large lawyers like him usually get a nice, fat, bonus if they wi a case. It is so sad how the justice industry outside of federal courts, has become such money hoarders. They just want the money and for their guy to win. Very unfortunate. Met a lot of guys like that.

 

[jsparks747]

No, there was a 4th side: that it was deliberate murder. That the boy murdered his younger brother due to sibling rivalry. That was the side that the prosecutor took.

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Yes. I totally spaced on that. Thanks for correcting that.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i had a 700 go off by just moving from safe to fire. not sure if it had trigger work or not. was bought used by a friend. talk about S your pants.

i always make sure the muzzle is in a safe direction before loading the gun. i loaded it on the shooting table with it reating on my shooting bag, aimed down range, finger out of the trigger guard, flipped off safety BANNNGGGG!!!!

guns been in his safe ever since.